Poll

Are you in favour of the U.K. remaining in the EU or would you rather Leave

Remain in the EU
29 (38.2%)
leave the EU
47 (61.8%)

Total Members Voted: 76

Author [ES] [CA] [PL] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [DK] [NO] [GR] [TR] Topic: Are you In or Out  (Read 23306 times)

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Offline NiK

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Re: Are you In or Out
« Reply #50 on: May 24, 2016, 09:11:39 AM »
Interesting political joust here!

I believe that many of you gents are right:
- Voting is an essential modern age value and it shouldn't be overlooked.
- Having other nations dictate laws in your own country is unacceptable.
- Making business your own way is the core dogma of the world today (but for a couple of claimed socialist countries).

I also believe that many of you gents are wrong:
- Voting now is the ultimate illusion of democracy. You vote, politicians enforce what lobbies tell them to, you're disappointed, you vote for someone else who does the same and it goes on and on...
- The international community (mainly through the UN) desperately tries to dictate some behaviors to many countries. Israel, Iran, North Korea, United States, Russia, you name it. Should it be condemned for a country to genocide its own people? Should it be condemned for a country to invade another? Should it be condemned for a country to strangle another's economy?
- There is basically no difference between unregulated business and the farwest. The strong crushes the weak.


All in all, listing all the reasons for being in or out might not be the right approach. Simply because we live in a schizoid world which constantly contradicts itself, as we all do in our everyday lives (this, of course, includes my very self).

If we want to sound right or wrong, we can brandish lots of examples, reasonings and opinions.
If we want to be right or wrong, maybe should we just accept all the consequences of what we think we believe in and call it a day.

Offline AndrewNZ

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Re: Are you In or Out
« Reply #51 on: May 24, 2016, 09:15:01 AM »
I have just noticed Ogri you are in Hertfordshire which is where I was prior to coming here! Nice part of the world.
Even with UK representatives their effectiveness is diluted and what would benefit the UK does not necessarily benefit the rest, I know that's how democracy works but are eastern European countries even interested in what's fair and reasonable.

I still think out is better than in especially with the UK's island status which many of the others do not have which would make it difficult for them mind you saying that Switzerland seem to manage quite well.

Offline BlahBlah

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Re: Are you In or Out
« Reply #52 on: May 24, 2016, 09:52:41 AM »
*Originally Posted by AndrewNZ [+]
, I know that's how democracy works but are eastern European countries even interested in what's fair and reasonable.



WTF!
If you choose not to decide, then you have still made a decision!

Offline Lopez

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Re: Are you In or Out
« Reply #53 on: May 24, 2016, 11:20:14 AM »
I'll accept whatever Spain's President say about this... So, please, Mrs. Merkel, tell me.

Offline Jonnybiscuit

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Re: Are you In or Out
« Reply #54 on: May 24, 2016, 01:55:42 PM »
*Originally Posted by Ogri (Trainee) [+]
....................we have the same control over Europe as over our own government.

...............I believe each country gets a proportionate number of MEP's to there population.

Can you not see that these two statements contradict each other ??  :027:  The first is delusional ............. and the second is the reason why it's delusional.  :033:

The total population of the EU is 508 Million. The current population of the UK is 65 Million. Very simply that means we have a 13% say. It's laughable to suggest we have/would have any "control" over decisions................. And that's before any further enlargement of the block.

Offline Jonnybiscuit

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Re: Are you In or Out
« Reply #55 on: May 24, 2016, 02:10:27 PM »
*Originally Posted by BlahBlah [+]
My point is that these people decimitated our economy and someone other than our goverment tried to put something in place to try and avoid it happening again. I don't agree that limiting bankers greed will have a severely negative impact on our economy, it is the opposite that applies!

You seem to have missed the fact that the banking crisis/collapse stared in the US as a result of their domestic "Sub Prime" lending and global hedging. Is the EU going to tackle US Bankers too then? Noooo.....just ours  :009:  Anyway, cutting Bankers bonuses will not prevent a repeat of the collapse. They're peanuts in the grand scheme of things......but the migration of the banking business to another more "sympathetic" city would put a massive hole in the UK's economy. The greedy eurocrats were/are pandering to the jealous public (and that includes me).
« Last Edit: May 24, 2016, 02:15:21 PM by Jonnybiscuit »

Offline Jonnybiscuit

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Re: Are you In or Out
« Reply #56 on: May 24, 2016, 02:28:43 PM »
*Originally Posted by BlahBlah [+]
I was thinking of the fact that some in the Balkans were still itching for a fight and have probably benefited from the extra attention from the rest of the E.U.

There was/is friction ..... but with each other and themselves. The root is a post WW2 "sort out" following the collapse of the Soviet Block and the removal of their "heavy lid". They were essentially internal civil wars/conflicts. The EU (and UN btw) were/are impotent.

Now....on the other hand, if/when the Balkan states become EU members......any residual problem, becomes an EU problem.  :084:

Offline BlahBlah

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Re: Are you In or Out
« Reply #57 on: May 24, 2016, 02:39:03 PM »
*Originally Posted by Jonnybiscuit [+]
You seem to have missed the fact that the banking crisis/collapse stared in the US as a result of their domestic "Sub Prime" lending and global hedging. Is the EU going to tackle US Bankers too then? Noooo.....just ours  :009:  Anyway, cutting Bankers bonuses will not prevent a repeat of the collapse. They're peanuts in the grand scheme of things......but the migration of the banking business to another more "sympathetic" city would put a massive hole in the UK's economy. The greedy eurocrats were/are pandering to the jealous public (and that includes me).

Oh well! You seemed to have figured it all out! We will just let them get on with it without any more regulation because we are sooo scared that they might up sticks and go somewhere else.
If you choose not to decide, then you have still made a decision!

Offline Jonnybiscuit

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Re: Are you In or Out
« Reply #58 on: May 24, 2016, 03:52:18 PM »
*Originally Posted by BlahBlah [+]
Oh well! You seemed to have figured it all out! We will just let them get on with it without any more regulation because we are sooo scared that they might up sticks and go somewhere else.

Did I say I liked it ? :027:. ......... But anyway, the Gov have made the banks split Retail from Investment. That means if the Investment (Casino) arms crash, they crash. We don't bale them. But we do support the arms that hold individual's money. They've also made them create funds to absorb down turns. Sooo...they've not exactly just "let them get on with it".
Scared is not a word I would use, but we should be aware that "upping sticks and going elsewhere" is a real possibility in these days of "e" business and would make us as a Nation much much less prosperous.

Offline Prodded Dog

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Re: Are you In or Out
« Reply #59 on: May 24, 2016, 08:07:57 PM »
*Originally Posted by BlahBlah [+]
I just want an adult conversation about facts on the ground, not hearsay and tabloid soundbites which seems to be the main points being banded about. Are our daily lives so limited/blighted by being part of Europe?
*Originally Posted by BlahBlah [+]
WTF!
So much for an adult conversation :435:

The Prodded Dog

 


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