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Offline PTwizz

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Re: TSAS ABS and TC disabled during hard acceleration
« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2018, 01:43:56 PM »
If you see the combination of those system warnings as you describe, you can be fairly confident that it is the same software failure.
A genuine hardware failure (e.g. wheel speed sensor) would be captured by the ECU, which would record a DTC (fault code) to be read from the OBD port, either by your dealer, or by yourself if you have the tool.

Online kenw

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Re: TSAS ABS and TC disabled during hard acceleration
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2018, 12:40:39 AM »
As a now-retired programmer, I know that any complex software is almost certain to contain bugs.  Its just whether they manifest themselves as a problem.  You hope that comprehensive testing will find most of them.  (A 'bug' is only a bug if it actually occurs.  Code that doesn't get executed doesn't count.)
I've had a software bug appear a few times on my T1200 now.  I reset the fuel display, and it shows 51.1L/100km average usage, stuck on that until I reset again, at which point it returns to normal.
But even 'normal' is not quite right.  I'm riding at a constant speed, the instantaneous L/100km figure is say 4.5, I reset the figures, and the average starts off at 6 or 7 or more, gradually coming down to the likely correct figure.
Small anomalies, not affecting the reliability of the bike, but software bugs all the same.

What I'm finding odd, is that we don''t all suffer the same bugs.  Only one person reporting here of TSAS/ABS/TC issues on acceleration.  No-one else has mentioned fuel metering anomalies.  Only NiK reporting a T1200 that won't run.  (Though I think he has a hardware fault.)

So where is Triumph's communication point for reporting back what are most likely software bugs?  Going through dealers seems to be such a variable experience.  You'd think Triumph would want to know directly about ECU anomalies so they can investigate them.

Offline CaptainTrips

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Re: TSAS ABS and TC disabled during hard acceleration
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2018, 01:59:47 AM »
*Originally Posted by kenw [+]
So where is Triumph's communication point for reporting back what are most likely software bugs? 
There is a Software Suggestion Box. It is located on the north face of Everest, about 50 m from the summit (if I recall correctly).  :038:
"The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test."   --   Robert M. Pirsig

Offline NiK

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Re: TSAS ABS and TC disabled during hard acceleration
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2018, 09:01:30 AM »
*Originally Posted by kenw [+]
What I'm finding odd, is that we don''t all suffer the same bugs.
In a classical Root Cause Analysis, this would point toward a central processing bug. If the kernel is bugged, it can cause many different errors when incorrectly reacting to different situations (and judging by the sheer number of sensors in our bikes, there has to be many).

I'm more and more convinced that Triumph don't master their own product (which indicates that it's not really their product, but probably some gizmo outsourced from the cheapest contender in their Request For Proposals).

Offline XCaTel

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Re: TSAS ABS and TC disabled during hard acceleration
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2018, 09:41:53 AM »
*Originally Posted by NiK [+]

I'm more and more convinced that Triumph don't master their own product (which indicates that it's not really their product, but probably some gizmo outsourced from the cheapest contender in their Request For Proposals).
No different than many manufacturers I think, Brembo, Tokico, Nissan, Showa, WP, Sachs, Yuasa, Bosch, Michelin, Dunlop, Metzeler, umpteen unknown manufacturers of seat mouldings, body panels etc, the list goes on an on. I cant think for one minute Triumph bang out a tender doc for a 6-axis IMU and then take the lowest bidder who comes out of the woodwork. Granted, they didn't design the electronics specifically but I would suggest they spent some fair amount of time in a collaborative approach with the chosen vendor.

Maybe a little more thought by Triumph on how to deal with drawn out issues such as this is in order though. There can only be so many intelligent parts to this bikes electronics and you might of thought a diagnosis test rig which could be plugged into a loom temporarily replacing the bikes intelligent systems could be designed. Each dealer needn't have one just one or two per geo which could be Fedex's around as required.

Offline NiK

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Re: TSAS ABS and TC disabled during hard acceleration
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2018, 09:59:54 AM »
Of course they have many suppliers.
But the one we're talking about is the central processing unit. The 'brain' of the bike. The device without which the bike might simply don't start at all.
Only a complete moron would treat this part lightly.
Unfortunately, the various bug reports here tend to show that it was the case...

Offline tiger955

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Re: TSAS ABS and TC disabled during hard acceleration
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2018, 01:39:49 PM »
Had a 65 plate Gen 2 that had a fault light and warning on display for TSAS fault, three trips to dealer and no fault codes stored but Triumph instructed dealer to change rear shock, problem sorted, well done Triumph  :046:

Offline NiK

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Re: TSAS ABS and TC disabled during hard acceleration
« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2018, 03:12:02 PM »
Perfect example of a bad error handling design!

How can you possibly design a system that is unable to detect and report faults?!
And when you see such blatant flaws, how can you possibly go on as if everything was normal?!

Apparently, development best practices aren't enforced by Triumph!

 


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