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Offline XCaTel

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Re: Wife Cramped with Panniers on bike
« Reply #70 on: June 01, 2020, 09:16:22 AM »
*Originally Posted by Robin [+]

It seems to me that manufacturers don’t consider accessories such as hard panniers and top boxes with the same degree of care as they do with the bike it’s self. They built the bike and then chose the luggage system as an afterthought. Someone obviously considered the stability and handling was more important then the comfort of the pillion so positioned the luggage accordingly.

Yes I think you are right. It would be a much better approach to start with a design brief, "what do we want this bike to excel at"? e.g. Touring. What are the criteria for a great tourer? Rider and Passenger comfort, wind protection, plenty of tie down points for luggage, luggage options, effortless cruising, large load rating, reasonable fuel range and MPG, plenty of user 12v power on tap, shaft drive, great brakes for all that weight. The Tiger pretty much excels in all of these categories bar the pillion comfort when using Triumph luggage, take the luggage off and it is near perfect. OK, we all know it carries its weight a little high, lets hope that gets addressed in the Gen 4 (or all new model?).

Adding to your point, you can almost envisage the engine and chassis designer working separately on the Explorer in at Triumph until the engine design was finished, then they got together. The chassis guy goes "oh, it might of been a good idea to slant the whole engine aspect forward 40 degrees, that's going to make for a very top heavy design".  :033:

I watched a YouTube video on the aluminium luggage on the Moto Guzzi V85TT. Looks like their side pannier mounts are as poor as Triumph's, far to close to the rear foot pegs. Mind you, it looks like they have the top box spot on making it a lovely backrest for the pillion. I don't know about any of you but I find the top box more of a hindrance for the pillion, worse than the pannier location.

Offline CaptainTrips

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Re: Wife Cramped with Panniers on bike
« Reply #71 on: June 01, 2020, 05:01:05 PM »
*Originally Posted by Robin [+]
Someone obviously considered the stability and handling was more important then the comfort of the pillion so positioned the luggage accordingly.
Well, yeah. But you left out safety.

The reality is that no one follows the weight restrictions that manufacturers put on cargo placed and side bags and top boxes. For example, my Givi top rack plate states the maximum weight is 6kg or 13lbs including the top box! The only way that a motorcycle manufacturer could accommodate heavy luggage loads and passenger comfort is to stretch the wheelbase or move the weight as far forward as possible.

I changed out my Givi racks for SW Motech racks specifically because I wanted to move the weight forward a bit. When I camp two-up with my wife the front end of my TEX still gets dangerously light. Fortunately, my wife is still reasonably comfortable.

Everything is a compromise when you are designing a motorcycle. One size definitely does not fit all. One thing that I think I can predict about the upcoming gen4 T12, is that with the renewed focus on off-road capability, the luggage/passenger issue will only get worse.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2020, 05:02:58 PM by CaptainTrips »
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Offline XCaTel

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Re: Wife Cramped with Panniers on bike
« Reply #72 on: June 01, 2020, 07:44:05 PM »
*Originally Posted by CaptainTrips [+]
One thing that I think I can predict about the upcoming gen4 T12, is that with the renewed focus on off-road capability, the luggage/passenger issue will only get worse.
Yes, because that's what every owner craves out of the Explorer/T12, more off-road focus......................not!  If they make the new T12 more off-road focussed then they really don't understand the buyer market for this type of bike. Does anyone on this forum want a more off-road focussed Explorer/T12, anyone?

Offline Triple3

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Re: Wife Cramped with Panniers on bike
« Reply #73 on: June 01, 2020, 09:43:53 PM »
Maybe they are pandering to the journos in the comics.

Offline CaptainTrips

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Re: Wife Cramped with Panniers on bike
« Reply #74 on: June 01, 2020, 09:46:08 PM »
*Originally Posted by XCaTel [+]
Yes, because that's what every owner craves out of the Explorer/T12, more off-road focus......................not!  If they make the new T12 more off-road focussed then they really don't understand the buyer market for this type of bike. Does anyone on this forum want a more off-road focussed Explorer/T12, anyone?
All I can tell you, after spending last May on a rental R1200 GS in Africa, I found that the GS inspired a lot more confidence in me (as a novice dirt rider) on unpaved roads and safari tracks than my TEX does. Put another way, I rode that GS places that I would not attempt to take my TEX. And I enjoyed it.  :002:
"The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test."   --   Robert M. Pirsig

Offline XCaTel

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Re: Wife Cramped with Panniers on bike
« Reply #75 on: June 01, 2020, 10:05:28 PM »
*Originally Posted by CaptainTrips [+]
All I can tell you, after spending last May on a rental R1200 GS in Africa, I found that the GS inspired a lot more confidence in me (as a novice dirt rider) on unpaved roads and safari tracks than my TEX does. Put another way, I rode that GS places that I would not attempt to take my TEX. And I enjoyed it.  :002:
I totally believe you, but the greater majority of owners, maybe 90-95% plus (sticking a wet finger in the air here) have no intention of off-roading anything more than a poor road which the bike can handle perfectly well today. I guess the boxer engine and low COG have a lot to do with its handling and therefore popularity, it's a fine bike the GS, no doubt.

Offline XCaTel

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Re: Wife Cramped with Panniers on bike
« Reply #76 on: June 04, 2020, 09:38:14 AM »
Just watched a static comparison of a Tiger 800 Vs Tiger 900 both with aluminium side panniers on. The 800 setup looks to have very little clearance for the pillion feet like the T12. The 900 has bags of room for the pillion feet and the panniers look level with the rear seat. It is difficult to tell but they look like they are spaced a bither further out, possibly alleviating that leg issue too for the shorter pillion. There is no doubt they have given a lot more thought to pillion comfort on the 900. They might of made a boo boo with the rear top box, it looks like it encroaches as much as T12's but that is a little harder to tell, I might be wrong on that.

It looks like they are making more of an effort with pillion ergos which is great and bodes well for the new Tiger 12XX whenever that breaks ground.  :152:


Offline XCaTel

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Re: Wife Cramped with Panniers on bike
« Reply #77 on: June 04, 2020, 10:20:22 AM »
Has the standard mounting kit for the Tiger 1200 changed? It has got really expensive BUT on the configurator looks to mount the panniers way further back a la Givi? Have Triumph quietly solved this problem. I know they are still high but that may be OK for shorter leg pillions with just the rearward setting. Good on them if they have, better late than never.

Expedition Pannier Mounting Kit
Part NumberA9508193
Expedition Panniers Mounting Kit constructed from 18mm diameter mild steel tubing. This is a hard-wearing kit that is electrophoretic coated for corrosion resistance, with black powder coated finish for durability.
£421.91


Offline mjab

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Re: Wife Cramped with Panniers on bike
« Reply #78 on: June 04, 2020, 08:44:55 PM »
*Originally Posted by XCaTel [+]
Just watched a static comparison of a Tiger 800 Vs Tiger 900 both with aluminium side panniers on. The 800 setup looks to have very little clearance for the pillion feet like the T12. The 900 has bags of room for the pillion feet and the panniers look level with the rear seat. It is difficult to tell but they look like they are spaced a bither further out, possibly alleviating that leg issue too for the shorter pillion. There is no doubt they have given a lot more thought to pillion comfort on the 900. They might of made a boo boo with the rear top box, it looks like it encroaches as much as T12's but that is a little harder to tell, I might be wrong on that.

It looks like they are making more of an effort with pillion ergos which is great and bodes well for the new Tiger 12XX whenever that breaks ground.  :152:


And as usual you wont be able to find out if it has as the dealers wont buy the pannier rails and panniers to fit to the demonstrators as once they use the keys they'll have to give them away with the bike when they sell it.
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Offline XCaTel

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Re: Wife Cramped with Panniers on bike
« Reply #79 on: June 04, 2020, 08:53:05 PM »
Our dealer here in Dublin generally does have demonstrators with luggage on and just sells it off altogether when done. The scrambler 1200’s have the extra kits too so you do get a good idea. They even had demo units in with the black aluminium luggage last year.

 


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