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Offline njloco

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Re: Keeping Fog Lamps on all the time?
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2018, 05:28:23 AM »
I always turn them on ! It gives the moron's more of a three dimensional picture.

Offline Dorsetbiker

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Re: Keeping Fog Lamps on all the time?
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2018, 04:45:21 AM »
IMHO there is something really important to learn from this discussion. I recently read a well presented argument that fluorescent jackets make hardly any difference to rider's visibility to other road users. My own experience tends to confirm this. However when I am driving a car,  I always notice single (ie bike's) DRLs  and especially when a bike has the so called fog lamps on as well. Does anyone know of a study / research that confirms improved visibility and whether the 3D effect of three lamps might provide any additional benefit? For my part I always have them on and its one of my standard checks before moving off. I've adjusted them slightly downwards so there s no risk of dazzle. I routinely get flashed by oncoming car drivers who presumably think that the lamps have been left on by mistake (aka dozy twats). This confirms that they can see me which by my reckoning is good to know. I try to make a point of thanking them appropriately as they pass....

Online XCaTel

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Re: Keeping Fog Lamps on all the time?
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2018, 09:09:59 AM »
My 2016 Euro Spec Honda Africa Twin (sold for the T12) had always on front indicators. At night/dusk they made you stand out in a sea of white headlights adding some context to yourself, during the day they added another couple of bright lamps to notice. I would be perfectly happy if the T12 did the same.

On the Gen 3 (Euro Spec) the main lamp has to be on before you can switch on the fog/aux lights and that in turn dims the daytime running light (DRL). So, which is more visible during the day from a distance 1) full DRL or 2) dipped main light plus two fog/aux and a dimmed DRL? If it’s the latter what is the point of a DRL only setup apart from choice?

Offline NiK

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Re: Keeping Fog Lamps on all the time?
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2018, 10:27:04 AM »
*Originally Posted by Dorsetbiker [+]
Does anyone know of a study / research that confirms improved visibility and whether the 3D effect of three lamps might provide any additional benefit?
Here you are: https://www.fondation-maif.fr/pieces-jointes/rapport_final_avimoto.pdf
Unfortunately, it is a French study and I don't think it was translated into English.

Offline Dorsetbiker

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Re: Keeping Fog Lamps on all the time?
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2018, 11:23:13 AM »
Thank you NIK. This is a highly scientific research with lots of qualified conclusions and only one that I think helps the debate;

"Drivers perform significantly more risky manoeuvres in the face of a motorcycle with a single central light than in front of a motorcycle with a vertical or mixed arrangement."

This was in the context of night time riding but I think is sufficient to convince me of the value of riding with them on full time. Interestingly, they went on to research the value of orange lighting instead of white and this seems to improve visibility too.

Online Will Morgan

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Re: Keeping Fog Lamps on all the time?
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2018, 11:26:05 AM »
*Originally Posted by Dorsetbiker [+]
I recently read a well presented argument that fluorescent jackets make hardly any difference to rider's visibility to other road users.

I've seen similar research and yellow hi-viz jackets are so common people ignore them. The recommended solution was pink hi-viz, and one club I belong to started to use these for  marshals etc. which definitely did attract more attention - although with some predictable non-politically correct comments too!

Offline Dilbert

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Re: Keeping Fog Lamps on all the time?
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2018, 12:58:22 PM »
*Originally Posted by Will Morgan [+]
I've seen similar research and yellow hi-viz jackets are so common people ignore them. The recommended solution was pink hi-viz, and one club I belong to started to use these for  marshals etc. which definitely did attract more attention - although with some predictable non-politically correct comments too!

I went to a Biker Down session a couple of months ago, they also reckon that yellow hi-vis has become too common and can be confused with workmen, or not visible against a light green hedgerow, they recommend orange hi-vis (though some workmen are wearing these now too), or as you say pink, my wife rides a black horse with a "Polite" vest and peeps spot her miles away, sat up above most hedgerows, or occasionally she goes for the full shocking pink ensemble  :018:

I go the full nine yards, I ride a white bike, with a white helmet, headlamps and DRL fog lamps and a hi-vis, on the motorway the only thing I'm confused with is bike cops, I call this my "Moses" set-up, on account of the way it parts the traffic  :008:

You can never completely eliminate risk, but you can reduce the likelihood of not being seen, so do whatever you think is best, but at least do something, still way too many SMIDSY type accidents.


I'll never be old enough to know better !

Offline pcarnut

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Re: Keeping Fog Lamps on all the time?
« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2018, 07:07:52 PM »
Good discussion.  The reading I've done suggested using DRLs that are mounted lower down so as to create a triangular effect, or more 3D.  On my T12 I don't use the factory mounted lights, I've instead mounted Clearwater Darlas lower down on the fork legs.  I've also put amber lens on them.  I regularly lead a group of guys on rides and one of the guys in the group has some amber lens on his DRLs and I can easily pick him out among all the cars and bikes behind me.  He usually pulls up the rear so easy to tell when we're all together.

Not that I'm plugging Clearwater but one of the great things about these lights is they can be adjusted for brightness, so I turn can turn them down at night, and, they offer a relay that can be wired into your horn system so that when you honk your horn, the lights go full bright.  So a tap of the horn gives you noise and a brilliant flash of amber.  I'm very proactive when I see a car pull up from a side road or driveway.  They also offer the same relay to wire into your high beams so when you turn on your brights the running lights go full bright, but alas the relay will only work with incandescent bulbs, not our new LED headlights.

If I'm filtering/splitting lanes, and put on my high beams and the Clearswaters on full, it's like mentioned above, the parting of the Red Sea.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 07:12:39 PM by pcarnut »
2018 T12, 2014 TEx, 2011 1050

Offline Hawkeye

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Re: Keeping Fog Lamps on all the time?
« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2018, 07:40:24 PM »
In what I have read, the best thing you can do is "break up" the normal look - so anything which goes beyond the standard headlamps of motorcycles is good news.

Whilst I have the fog lamps on mine, I don't use them except maybe at night down country lanes, reason being is that I find the beam too narrow. When filtering or in traffic, often the beam from the fog light just doesn't get anywhere near the mirrors of cars. Different when out in the open, as with a bit of distance, then you can clearly see them.

To overcome this, and have optional "solutions" for all situations, I've done 2 things

- fitted an additional set of switchable 10w Cree spots off the bottom of the upper crash bars (that way they don't interfere with the beam of the Triumph fogs). These have a wide 80 degree beam, so no use at all as spots for country lanes, but they do project light in a very wide arc.
- fitted a set of Running strips from Bikevis to my handguards - these come on with the ignition - to this is have added the BikeVis modulator so it glimmers (and before anyone says flashing lights are illegal, these only glimmer so are totally legal!). It is only a barely perceptable glimmer, but the difference since fitting them - given the height, easily noticed when filtering and with the glimmering, you see car drivers do a double take - so know you've been seen. The other advantage is that being on the handguards they are on the extreme outside of the bike (at 200ft if you hold a pencil up, all you will see is the bike's mirrors, irrelevant of other lights and high-vis - so with the running strips, these help (IMO). https://www.bikevis.com/product/bikevis-strip-led-motorcycle-running-lights/

I don't use the Triumph fogs or the additional spots I have added all the time, just appropriate to the riding conditions. But the driving strips are on all the time the ignition is on.

I've also done the Biker Down course (VERY worthwhile doing if anyone is wondering),  on our course, we were told that different hi-viz applies in different lighting situations - however as a general rule either pink or blue was a good choice. I chose blue!

Offline Dilbert

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Re: Keeping Fog Lamps on all the time?
« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2018, 01:09:53 PM »
Hawkeye
The Biker Down I did said that if you do a lot of urban riding against a darker background, then yellow is still best, it's when you're out on a sunny day against a light hedgerow that it can blend in, I have a dark jacket with one of these https://www.ghostbikes.com/15812-held-hi-viz-vest.html?istCompanyId=afe640d6-8de8-42e7-8d54-69f4d3462c7b&istItemId=-xpxprialxm&istBid=tztx&gclid=CjwKCAiAmO3gBRBBEiwA8d0Q4l1r75S_8GvQsHJouzTwwmTNi5K9Of_XAHF-Dd-t2eYUuJvA8wHM4xoCiuoQAvD_BwE

It works well because it stand out against the jacket sides and sleeves, pink is good because it's rarer, not sure I've seen any blue ones ?


I'll never be old enough to know better !

 


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