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Offline vsteel

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Re: Are we doing enough
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2018, 02:58:32 AM »
*Originally Posted by CaptainTrips [+]
My point here is that surely we can love our TEX's without having to bash BMWs to do it.

I don't think anyone is bashing BMW, there was a recent set of data collected that had 40% of BMWs going in for warranty work.   Recent data shows them to be the most unreliable motorcycle brand. 

Offline CaptainTrips

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Re: Are we doing enough
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2018, 03:34:40 AM »
*Originally Posted by vsteel [+]
I don't think anyone is bashing BMW,
...so much better than the German tractors

It's called 'Lemming syndrome'

IAM riders can look down their noses all they want ... but their attitude towards BMW I feel is blinkered by brand loyalty


Well, yeah, I do think that some bashing is happening here. BMW owners are "lemmings" who are "blinded by brand loyalty". I've also seen them described on this forum as snobs.

I belong to a BMW club. My local club has over 200 members. These people are enthusiasts who ride a lot. They are my friends and the people who I ride with (having just gotten back from a three-day tour with three of them). They don't bash my choice of ride and I don't bash theirs. We all like what we ride. And if we don't, we buy something else.

If I wanted to belong to a Triumph owners club, well that would be a little hard because there isn't one here (at lease not that I know of). And if there were, it would likely be populated with younger folk who ride the twins or older folks who restore twins.
"The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test."   --   Robert M. Pirsig

Offline Tigraid

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Re: Are we doing enough
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2018, 07:34:07 AM »
*Originally Posted by CaptainTrips [+]


Well, yeah, I do think that some bashing is happening here. BMW owners are "lemmings" who are "blinded by brand loyalty". I've also seen them described on this forum as snobs.

I belong to a BMW club. My local club has over 200 members. These people are enthusiasts who ride a lot. They are my friends and the people who I ride with (having just gotten back from a three-day tour with three of them). They don't bash my choice of ride and I don't bash theirs. We all like what we ride. And if we don't, we buy something else.

If I wanted to belong to a Triumph owners club, well that would be a little hard because there isn't one here (at lease not that I know of). And if there were, it would likely be populated with younger folk who ride the twins or older folks who restore twins.

I don't think anyone is bashing anything, just stating opinions based on personal experience or research.  I also am not precious about what others think of my choice of ride.  For the record, I was a BMW owner and happened to enjoy and put up many miles on both my beemers, possibly totalling 50K miles, so yes, I ride a lot too.

  I wouldn't dream of shelling out my hard earned on any late model one precisely because it is a matter of record and fact that they are unfortunately not the most reliable choice these days.  I also did a lot of visiting showrooms to look at a wide variety of GS's, RT's, Triumphs, Yamahas, Hondas, Kawazakis, and KTMs over a 6 month period, spoke to owners of those machines and did my homework, so I am very happy and confident in the conclusions reached before making a decision on a bike to replace the one I had been riding. That is not bashing anyone.  I hope you don't mind me saying that you're perhaps being a tad over-sensitive about the whole thing?  Laugh it off, they're only inanimate objects and it shouldn't change anyone's life because some on a Triumph forum may have come over from the dark side because of their own experiences with BMW.

I would agree with an earlier posting that the earlier air cooled models were possibly the most reliable ones ever made but sadly, that has not been my experience of the later models  NOR the experience of many fellow bmw riders (some IAM members) who have bought late model machines.  I also happen to know and respect a good number of IAM members and have absolutely nothing against any of them;  the ones I know are a really decent and helpful bunch and all are talented.   However, there are those amongst them, and this is only in my own experience, who are certainly quite opinionated in their choice of bike which has less to do with reliability and more to do with all day comfort, road manners, power delivery, handling and brand loyalty. It's not an exclusive thing though as of the half dozen or so I know, four I guess are die-hard bmw fans, the other two ride Hondas. My comments were (I had though a little obvioously?) strictly tongue in cheek :-)  A little lightening of the mood is in order, after all, this thread started out about singing the praises of the Tiger, so perhaps we ought to get back to that :031:


Offline XCaTel

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Re: Are we doing enough
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2018, 09:05:04 AM »
Well the new GS1250 & R1250RT have broke ranks so there will be plenty of 2nd hand late model 1200's out there to try in the new year for anyone that wants to go down the BMW route. A few more cc's and a head change, otherwise they look the same as the 2018. The 150HP next gen boxer motor never materialised (although it was never promised by BMW). More than a Triumph Gen 2 to Gen 3 change but essentially the same bike underneath the skin. I see thery increased warranty by an extra year too, could mean they are trying to allay customer fears or are more confident in the reliability of the new bike. One thing is for sure, they are going to sell boatloads of them.

Offline FredJ9

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Re: Are we doing enough
« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2018, 03:53:03 PM »
The whole brand bashing/praising thing will be around as long as we have brand choices. Pride is something that plagues us all, some are consumed by it. Nobody wants to admit they bought the wrong bike.
My experience with Japanese, British and Italian bikes has been pretty good with the Japanese bikes being the most reliable followed by the one Ducati I've owned.
Before I bought the Ducati I read all the negative press about reliability, I had no issues.
The one Kawasaki problem I had was on a long trip and cost me a day of vacation. Several other Kawasakis and Suzukis were dead bang reliable, even the off road bikes that we hammered.
As others have stated in the past, they are machines that can fail...nothing is perfect.
I have learned plenty from this forum and respect the members. I also know we're only human and are more flawed than the bike we ride.
My choice to buy the TEx was a process of elimination. Local dealer support then price were the deciding factors.
My experience with my Tiger reliability wasn't very good in the beginning. The fuel tank had a weld that failed causing a leak. Really frustrating going through the whole warranty thing but all is forgiven. How many other bikes have you heard of having a fuel tank weld fail? Just a freak thing for any brand.
Rant over ;)

Offline CaptainTrips

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Re: Are we doing enough
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2018, 04:41:48 PM »
For the record, I owned a '96 R1100R and it was the least reliable of any motorcycle that I have ever owned. I bought it for $4500, spent $4500 on setting it right including dealing with the infamous M94 gearbox popping out of 2nd gear issue, ABS fault on cold startup issue, failed paralever bearings etc. etc. In fairness, the bike had 40k miles on it when I bought it. I ultimately sold the bike for $4500. So, I am not disputing the reliability of BMW motorcycles. What I am disputing is that the popularity of BMW motorcycles is due to solely to media bias and blind brand loyalty.

BMW puts a great deal of effort into their customer communities. In North America, they support the Motorcycle Owners Association which helps coordinate and support local clubs, prints a glossy magazine and holds an annual national rally that is attended by thousands, as well as dozens of local rallies put on by local clubs throughout N. America. BMW also supports car and motorcycle clubs in Canada via their parent organization BMW Clubs Canada, which provides things like insurance for club events and rides. In addition, BMW supports major offroad events under the GS Trophy banner. Many people buy BMWs because they are buying into a very active motorcycling community.

If reliability was the only criteria for buying a motorcycle, then I would have bought another Honda and there would not be a TEX sitting in my garage as my only ride. BTW, turned over 44,444 kms yesterday.   :002:
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 04:47:32 PM by CaptainTrips »
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Offline FredJ9

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Re: Are we doing enough
« Reply #36 on: September 20, 2018, 04:51:11 PM »
Thanks Captain, not many tell it like it is.

Offline Icy

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Re: Are we doing enough
« Reply #37 on: September 20, 2018, 04:55:22 PM »
*Originally Posted by CaptainTrips [+]
BTW, turned over 44,444 kms yesterday.   :002:

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Offline CaptainTrips

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Re: Are we doing enough
« Reply #38 on: September 21, 2018, 04:08:26 PM »
BTW, to balance out my own BMW history, my riding buddy put about 179,000 kms on his 2007 R1200RT. He is very disappointed that his collision with a bear ended his hopes of getting to 200,000 kms. He does his own maintenance and had no major issues with the bike. At the time of the crash, it still had its original clutch and final drive and the engine had never been apart. It was using about 4oz of oil per 5000kms of use.

Of course, YMMV.  :001:
"The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test."   --   Robert M. Pirsig

Offline Tigraid

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Re: Are we doing enough
« Reply #39 on: September 21, 2018, 06:06:31 PM »
No-one I think is disputing that BMWs are anything other than great to ride (mainly). I personally love the R1200RT.  No-one would dispute the marketing and community effort...Harley do the same over here with dealerships giving HOG memberships to new bike owners, and encouraging all customers to become "one of the community"  (not my cup of tea at all) which is rather large over here but those sorts of things, imho (and it is just my personal view) are just gimmicks.  How a bike rides, and how well its made matter a hell of a lot to me as does reliability.  The most reliable bikes I've owned included a 1994 Triumph Trident 750, bought near new and then covered starship miles with zero faults...ever...it just went on and on.  Ditto, a 650 BMW boxer (R65) which I toured Europe on, and commuted to work 49 weeks of the year, for a good number of years and more recently, a KTM640 which was just bomb-poof.  That bike was ridden hard, looked after well (all home maintenance and servicing) and never let me down.  It remains one of my favourite bikes along with an Edwards Replica RSVR Aprilia from 2004 which I was lucky to own (only 40 ever imported here).

The least reliable included a 1979 Ducati Darmah Desmo which blew crankcase seals for a living (6 of them in total!), suffered electrical glitches, incurable clutch drag and slip and a late 1990s Harley Sportster which was off the road almost as much as on it despite regular maintenance.

In between were my R100RT which went through front wheel bearings every 10K miles, suffered cracks on the front cast wheels;  needed two timing chains in 40K miles, blew rocker gaskets annually and needed almost constant carb fettling.

Later bikes have not necessarily all been the most reliable either but on the whole suffer less with major engine gremlins.  These days it does seem that the more complex bikes get, the more problems they (are going to) have.

On the whole, I think it's fair to say, just based on evidence provided, that the TEX remains more reliable in UK surveys (in Gen1 form...don't know about the latest ones) than the equivalent BMW bikes.  It doesn't mean that I don't like them, because I do.  Would I own one though after doing extensive homework and speaking to those who have put up many miles on them?  :110:  Genuinely, that disappoints me.  Reliability may not matter to some...it certainly matters to me.  Each to their own though and Vive La difference  :821:
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 06:10:19 PM by Tigraid »

 


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