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Offline Givusaclue

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Re: Mk3 stranded!
« Reply #60 on: October 09, 2018, 12:43:28 PM »
*Originally Posted by XCaTel [+]
I would say plenty of mechanics have been caught out by a live circuit with full voltage seemingly being ok. Often a connection is so poor it can't carry enough current to power the device, whatever it is, but the circuit shows good voltage. A broken cable buried in a loom with one copper strand intact will quite happily sit there and show 12v-14v on a circuit but be quite useless. Really hope you get to the bottom of this as sooon as.

it's quite possible that a high resistance in a circuit can shut it down, see it regularly in all makes of cars, the powers & negs to the ecu need load testing, a voltmeter alone won't do that, but a dinosaur aged bulb with 2 wires will.
if they can't talk to the ecu then that's what i'd be doing first
if you've tapped into any wires for anything make sure you tell them, because the amount of people that don't tell the garage what they've done when they drop it off for a fault, that turns out to be self inflicted is amazing, they think it'll not cost them more if they tell you, but finding it takes time & time's money, so what do you think happens?

Online Icy

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Re: Mk3 stranded!
« Reply #61 on: October 09, 2018, 01:10:51 PM »
So Nik. All this time, and still no word from them? Still?
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Online CaptainTrips

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Re: Mk3 stranded!
« Reply #62 on: October 09, 2018, 04:26:40 PM »
*Originally Posted by NiK [+]
I know how it can (not) work. I simply don’t agree with the idea of leaving ‘unexpected faults’ in a vehicle system.
An unexpected fault in code is a place where the programmer believes you can never get to without going through the regular checks and balances -- a condition not foreseen by the designers and programmers. The more complex the system, the more potential for these kinds of faults. Example, many airline crashes are the result of two or more unrelated failures (sometimes human and machine) happening simultaneously, when individual faults were treated as unique situations.
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Offline NiK

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Re: Mk3 stranded!
« Reply #63 on: October 10, 2018, 10:36:28 AM »
Well, I started my career as a developer, then a military, then a researcher and I am now an IT Security Expert, so I have some knowledge about all of this ;-)

And I maintain that adding complexity can be achieved without creating potentially safety compromising points of failure. This IS a design flaw. And a potentially lethal one at that (what if unexpected software conditions shut the whole system down when I'm trying to avoid a crash?).
If (and only if) the flaw is definitely proven, Triumph will have no excuse for it. When you design, build and sell vehicles, you can't be negligent.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 10:39:47 AM by NiK »

Offline NiK

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Re: Mk3 stranded!
« Reply #64 on: October 10, 2018, 10:38:57 AM »
*Originally Posted by Icy [+]
So Nik. All this time, and still no word from them? Still?
Mothership threw the problem to Triumph France, who did what they apparently do best: NOTHING.
Meanwhile, the dealer does what his electronic skills allow him to do: NOTHING.

Offline electroken

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Re: Mk3 stranded!
« Reply #65 on: October 10, 2018, 11:02:10 AM »
OK, I'm just a newbie here but I'm an EE and primarily a hardware guy. I'm always willing to blame the software team when things go awry. Just ask them.

Why are we so sure this is a software problem?

I know as well as anyone that troubleshooting modern vehicles is beyond all but a few motorcycle shops. What they need is an oscilloscope and someone who understands the meaning of the squiggly lines.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 11:06:33 AM by electroken »

Online Icy

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Re: Mk3 stranded!
« Reply #66 on: October 10, 2018, 11:15:21 AM »
*Originally Posted by NiK [+]
Mothership threw the problem to Triumph France, who did what they apparently do best: NOTHING.
Meanwhile, the dealer does what his electronic skills allow him to do: NOTHING.

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Offline Will Morgan

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Re: Mk3 stranded!
« Reply #67 on: October 10, 2018, 11:17:29 AM »
A long long time ago I had a new bike with catastrophic mechanical problems. The dealer couldn’t cope & actually hid it in a warehouse while they carried on with the day to day servicing of other less problematic bikes. I hope this hasn’t happened with yours!

I don’t know anything about French consumer laws, or the hierarchy of your dealership, but I eventually had to resort to legal threats on the grounds that the bike was “not fit for purpose” & I only got a result by directly confronting the CEO of the dealership rather than any of their managers.

Offline NiK

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Re: Mk3 stranded!
« Reply #68 on: October 10, 2018, 02:14:14 PM »
*Originally Posted by electroken [+]
Why are we so sure this is a software problem?
Not only I'm not that sure, but I think that nowadays, the border between hardware and software is kinda blurred to say the least.
Most complex hardware modules actually are micro code in a tangible form factor. In them programs lies the 'intelligence' (highly improper word used by everyone knowing zilch about AI) of our bikes and therefore the stupidity (and/or negligence) of their makers.

A true wizard could prove me wrong, but AFAIK most complex functions are controlled by a central unit (the ECU) and this is where I think there could be faults.

The only things I know for sure is that my bike is stranded for almost three weeks now and the dealer can't help, says that Triumph France can't help either and Triumph UK wash their hands with my case, turned it to Triumph France, who ultimately blamed the dealer this very noon by phone.

I'll ring said clueless dealer this afternoon and ask me to explain how on Earth Triumph France can say that my bike has an alarm problem while I thought this part had been ruled out two weeks ago.

Progress so far: I have the email of someone on Mothership and the phone number of someone at Triumph France.

Offline NiK

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Re: Mk3 stranded!
« Reply #69 on: October 10, 2018, 02:28:50 PM »
*Originally Posted by Will Morgan [+]
A long long time ago I had a new bike with catastrophic mechanical problems. The dealer couldn’t cope & actually hid it in a warehouse while they carried on with the day to day servicing of other less problematic bikes. I hope this hasn’t happened with yours!
I don't think so. The tech in Chief keeps telling me that he's personally working on my bike (and I won't put a webcam on him to check if he's lying).

*Originally Posted by Will Morgan [+]
I don’t know anything about French consumer laws, or the hierarchy of your dealership, but I eventually had to resort to legal threats on the grounds that the bike was “not fit for purpose” & I only got a result by directly confronting the CEO of the dealership rather than any of their managers.
There are such laws in France. The only cases I know of succesful actions were for cars and they all were after months (if not years) of expensive and tedious court procedures. The law is basically on the wealthies' side (i.e. those who have plenty of time and/or money).

 


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