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Offline NiK

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Re: Mk3 stranded!
« Reply #140 on: November 28, 2018, 09:10:23 AM »
EPILOGUE

After my requests for information have been ignored by Triumph UK for weeks, I finally had an email from Triumph France.
I had a call with a very polite representative, who apologized for my bad experience and offered me €500 worth of accessories.
I accepted the apologies, but told him about the (extremely) bad technical quality of my current dealer (along with evidences to cut any debate short). He said he'd call the dealer and I expect our relationship will sour somewhat...

Still, I couldn't get any actual detail regarding the root cause. They keep telling me the fix is "permanent". I told them that, as a PhD computer scientist, I would only accept factual elements as a proof that the failure won't reoccur, but they apparently don't care. Obviously, their end user communication policy is inspired by Apple (standard modern business stance like "We officially value your satisfaction highly but as long as there is no legal risk to us, you can go to hell with your questions").

All in all, I stand my comments about Triumph not being in total control of their products, their reseller network and their after sales services. All of this is far from a seamless industrialized process.
In all honesty, if the Tiger 1200 wasn't that extraordinary machine so perfectly ticking my boxes, I'd be gone for good.
Efforts were made on both sides (though I'm clearly the one who made the most), and it doesn't end up too bad. But the sour taste won't disappear that soon (fortunately, every twist of the right wrist instantly dissipates memories ;-).

Offline kenw

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Re: Mk3 stranded!
« Reply #141 on: November 28, 2018, 01:26:38 PM »
Glad its sorted, NiK.  It'd be sad to see you take up a lesser bike just to get one that works.

Today I rode with a bunch of go-fast Ulysses folk on their regular Wednesday ride.  (I almost managed to keep up.)  One of them was telling me about his experience with a Trophy.  Loved the bike, but it kept intermittently dropping back to 'limp mode'.  It was dangerous.  Couldn't get it fixed.  He said it was a known issue with the Trophy.  Probably also software.  He now rides a BMW.
On the plus side, there were three Street Triples and a Scrambler, that I saw (in addition to my T1200).  So Triumph was holding its own on the ride.

Offline Vagabond MC

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Re: Mk3 stranded!
« Reply #142 on: November 28, 2018, 03:01:53 PM »
What an interesting read.

Thanks for sharing all this. I currently work for a premium automotive company in the capacity of Lead Engineer and we too suffer greatly at the hands of the (franchised) dealerships. Quite often we will find that a customer or customers with 6-figure vehicles are furious with us regarding a relatively simple problem, and their dealership sees the massive bag of cash the customer has just brought to them for repair. Typically, within warranty, the dealer will claim the maximum amount of labour for a job by conducting the most complicated fix they can concoct - as an example a steering tie rod end could suffer a premature seal failure. Instead of spending 15 minutes fitting a cheap part as replacement and saying sorry that happened, they will state that the steering rack is toasted and quote for a new rack, subframe removal and refitting and a full calibration. The Franchise gets the money from the company, the customer is often left without their vehicle for weeks, and on the odd occasion it has been found that they didn't even fit the components they claimed were broken, but still charged for them anyway!

Now, I have been considering jobs at Triumph considering I have a degree in motorcycle engineering - but I imagine there would be a conflict of interest and I'd have to stop posting here if I did join them. OEMs are allowed to monitor forums but I think there are huge problems if you get involved, but I think it is always worth attempting to contact the brands design and engineering teams or their official admin teams with any serious problems, or if you feel your dealer is making a bigger problem.

We, the engineers, are not allowed to engage customers directly but we absolutely do have the power to send the experts to any global dealership rapidly to "adjust" the dealers methodology or to provide oversight. The most common reasons Dealers fail are usually down to electronics and calibrations, software faults and tuning. Sometimes it's a known batch issue and us making contact with the dealership on your behalf lets the dealership know we are aware of a specific problem a customer is having, which usually frightens them into doing anything and everything and doing it quickly and with a friendly demeanor. 

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Offline CaptainTrips

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Re: Mk3 stranded!
« Reply #143 on: November 28, 2018, 04:37:02 PM »
*Originally Posted by NiK [+]
Obviously, their end user communication policy is inspired by Apple (standard modern business stance like "We officially value your satisfaction highly but as long as there is no legal risk to us, you can go to hell with your questions").

All in all, I stand my comments about Triumph not being in total control of their products, their reseller network and their after sales services.
The small engineering software company that I worked for ported their software to the Apple platform in the 90's. After paying thousands of dollars to Apple to become an authorized software developer, we were on a couple of occasions told that we "did not need to know" things as simple as how the mouse button commands worked (we wanted to add a three-button mouse to offer CAD drawing functionality that paralleled our PC version, but this was contrary to Apple's design philosophy). We had to hack it ourselves to get it to work.

Regarding Triumph not being in total control of their products, I think that this is how the automotive industries work. Parts and subsystems are routinely outsourced to third-party suppliers and the OEM assembles them. That is probably OK if you are talking about engine blocks that you can easily inspect, but not OK when it comes to black box electronics.
"The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test."   --   Robert M. Pirsig

Offline biketraveller

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Re: Mk3 stranded!
« Reply #144 on: March 18, 2019, 05:50:49 PM »
Hi Nik

If you assume that this kind of thing only happens at the Bouches-du-Rhône, or if you think a total electronics failure that neither your dealership or Triumph were able to fix only happened to you, then you possibly may enjoy reading this:

https://biketraveller.org/2018/1.html

Exactly the same happened to me, the added spice was that I was a few thousand kilometres away from home at the time. Hopefully reading about my electronic gremlins will put a bit of a smile back on your face and make your six weeks without your steed look a bit more bearable.

Ride safely

Pete

Offline NiK

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Re: Mk3 stranded!
« Reply #145 on: March 19, 2019, 08:44:40 AM »
Thanks for this fascinating report Pete!
Indeed, I believe you were victim of the same Triumph's lack of computing skills.
Having to drive back home then back again to Sweden with your own truck to take the bike back home is extraordinary charity from you as a customer!

The most interesting part to me though is that your story confirms that my case wasn't the first one known to Triumph (despite their usual lies: "it's the first time we hear about your problem").

They definitely are not doing their job properly: bad design, bad support teams, utter lies. Not sure their German inspiration would be better though...

Offline CaptainTrips

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Re: Mk3 stranded!
« Reply #146 on: March 19, 2019, 04:44:47 PM »
*Originally Posted by NiK [+]
Not sure their German inspiration would be better though...
German engineers NEVER make mistakes.  Just ask one.  :038:
"The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test."   --   Robert M. Pirsig

 


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