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Offline coolhand

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I am about to start on the work to adjust valve clearances. I assume I will have to use some shims, which means I also have to adjust the timing and reset the timing chain tension.

No problem, I have all the special tools, and I have done this a couple of times before (on Kawasakis, but still).

Howevere, as I started to plan the work today, I noticed something: According to the workshop manual, when I reset the chain tension, I must use a special tool (torque limiter) on the tensioner. When I look at the bike, it seems that the tube frame will not allow me any space to place the torque tensioner, much less anything like a socket wrench or anything; If I place anything on the tensioner, it will point straight into the frame, but on the pictures in the manual it seems the tensioner points a bit outward so that there is no hindrance.

You get my drift? Have posted pictures from manual, from the bike (two, one "clean", and one with a flexible screwdriver to try to show that it seems there is no space.....

This is a 2012 Tiger explorer.

Anyone done this on a bike like this?




Online CaptainTrips

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Re: Resetting cam chain tension - enough space btw frame and tensioner?
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2018, 04:31:47 PM »
Mark Barrett's Triumph Tiger Explorer Service Manual offers an alternative procedure that does not require the use of the special cam chain tensioner. I have used his procedure and it works fine.

Essentially, the OEM service manual is written under the assumption that the (one time -- done at 20k miles) cam timing adjustment would be done after the valves clearances are adjusted. He recommends doing it before you pull the cams out to adjust valves (if required). AFAIK, that is the only purpose of the special cam chain tensioning tool. It is then removed and the actual cam chain tensioner is reinserted and reset (see below).

The procedure for reinstalling the cam chain tensioner is simple. You retract the spring-loaded piston in the cam chain tensioner, install the tensioner, then back the crankshaft a quarter of a turn, and then turn it forward and the tensioner automatically releases the piston to the correct tension.

I recommend having both Mark's supplementary manual and the OEM manual.
"The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test."   --   Robert M. Pirsig

Online CaptainTrips

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Re: Resetting cam chain tension - enough space btw frame and tensioner?
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2018, 05:12:05 PM »
BTW, to answer your question, it is possible that the special cam chain tensioning tool is used only as a factory assembly procedure, or when an engine is being rebuilt -- in other words before the first startup. That being the case, it is probably used before the engine is mounted in the frame.

Mark's contention in his manual is that since the cam chain is already properly tensioned in a running motor, there is no reason why you should not do the cam timing adjustment first before you remove the tensioner. And since the cam timing adjustment is a one-time adjustment done at the 20k service, you probably don't need the cam timing tensioner tool at all.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 05:15:18 PM by CaptainTrips »
"The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test."   --   Robert M. Pirsig

Offline SOHUTAA

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Re: Resetting cam chain tension - enough space btw frame and tensioner?
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2018, 05:25:51 PM »
*Originally Posted by CaptainTrips [+]

Mark's contention in his manual is that since the cam chain is already properly tensioned in a running motor, there is no reason why you should not do the cam timing adjustment first before you remove the tensioner. And since the cam timing adjustment is a one-time adjustment done at the 20k service, you probably don't need the cam timing tensioner tool at all.


Precisely, as you say, the tensioner, engine running works with oil pressure + its spring.
At the stop, there is only the spring.
In the Triumph documentation, the tool should be tightened to 0.6N / m very precisely.
Is this equivalent to spring alone ??? I can not answer. . .
On my 800 of 2016, I applied the instructions with Triumph tools.
The motor behavior has evolved better.
Indeed the framework gene. I used a Allen key with a rounded tip.

Online CaptainTrips

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Re: Resetting cam chain tension - enough space btw frame and tensioner?
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2018, 05:31:52 PM »
*Originally Posted by SOHUTAA [+]

Precisely, as you say, the tensioner, engine running works with oil pressure + its spring.
At the stop, there is only the spring.
In the Triumph documentation, the tool should be tightened to 0.6N / m very precisely.
Is this equivalent to spring alone ??? I can not answer. . .
On my 800 of 2016, I applied the instructions with Triumph tools.
The motor behavior has evolved better.
Indeed the framework gene. I used a Allen key with a rounded tip.
As mentioned above, I followed Mark's procedure to do my own cam timing adjustment and the outcome was successful with no issues. The cam chain tensioner's spring loader is ratcheted, so it cannot back off it's current setting without being removed and reset manually. BTW Mark states in his manual that he is an engineer, so I used his procedure with some confidence that he knows what he is talking about.
"The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test."   --   Robert M. Pirsig

Offline coolhand

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Re: Resetting cam chain tension - enough space btw frame and tensioner?
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2018, 05:40:09 PM »
I have the Mark Barret-manual... but I might be confused.... I thought the (one-time) timing tension adjustment had to be done again if I adjust the valve clearance. To adjust the valve clearance, I have to remove the camshafts.... this led me to assume  that I had to do the tension adjust too.

Anyway, the picture in the manual sorted me out. It says right there: They use a ballended allen key - this gives the flexibility to adjust properly. No?

Edit: I had none of this sh.. doing my three kawas.....  :232:

Anyway: I think I got it: The cam tensioner is already at the correct tension. Therefore, I can do the operation like this:      1) cam timing adjustment 2) remove tensioner 3) adjust valves 4) put cams and all that stuff back into place 5) remount tensioner 6) pray to the motorcycle god.

 Correct? If so, damn! I just bought a very expensive tool that I don't really need....

« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 05:47:20 PM by coolhand »

Offline ijinak

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Re: Resetting cam chain tension - enough space btw frame and tensioner?
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2018, 05:57:50 PM »
I used Marks manual when I did mine (about 10000 miles ago) and apart from the cam sprocket screws getting destroyed taking them off it was pretty straightforward. I don't remember using any special tool. As for the screws they were getting binned anyway.

Offline SOHUTAA

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Re: Resetting cam chain tension - enough space btw frame and tensioner?
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2018, 07:23:18 PM »
Who could send me Mark Barret's handbook ?

Offline ijinak

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Re: Resetting cam chain tension - enough space btw frame and tensioner?
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2018, 07:40:15 PM »
That would be Mark Barrett-look in approved vendors

Online CaptainTrips

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Re: Resetting cam chain tension - enough space btw frame and tensioner?
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2018, 03:11:56 AM »
*Originally Posted by coolhand [+]
I have the Mark Barret-manual... but I might be confused.... I thought the (one-time) timing tension adjustment had to be done again if I adjust the valve clearance.
No, just the once. The cam timing adjusts the sprockets rotation on the camshafts.

Anyway: I think I got it: The cam tensioner is already at the correct tension. Therefore, I can do the operation like this:      1) cam timing adjustment 2) remove tensioner 3) adjust valves 4) put cams and all that stuff back into place 5) remount tensioner 6) pray to the motorcycle god.
That sounds about right.   :002:
"The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test."   --   Robert M. Pirsig

 


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