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Offline oxidefilm

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Hyperpro vs Racetech
« on: January 28, 2019, 07:35:57 PM »
There isn't any contemporary info on this forum about these.  I installed Andreani for cartridges on my tex a while back but they sent springs that were softer than stock and have since blown both fork seals. I need something significantly stiffer.

Anyone have experience with hyperpro? There's more info on Racetech here but the spacers required and decrease in spring length gives me pause.

Offline unsubtle

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Re: Hyperpro vs Racetech
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2019, 08:34:17 PM »
Will the original Triumph springs fit? If so, they might be worth trying before spending more. If not, that might suggest that the Hyperpro springs will not fit either. As a last resort, you could get the spring spec from Adriani (spring rate in N/m or lb/ft, length, internal and external diameters) and have a spring made from scratch with a higher spring rate by a spring manufacturer (or find one near enough from their standard range).

Online Crosshairs

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Re: Hyperpro vs Racetech
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2019, 08:47:16 PM »
*Originally Posted by oxidefilm [+]
There isn't any contemporary info on this forum about these.  I installed Andreani for cartridges on my tex a while back but they sent springs that were softer than stock and have since blown both fork seals. I need something significantly stiffer.

Anyone have experience with hyperpro? There's more info on Racetech here but the spacers required and decrease in spring length gives me pause.





I have use hyper pro springs and they are a quality product..I have not used racetechs but Im sure that are also a quality product

but....spring rate will have no affect on fork seals, so the seals blowing is not at all related top the springs themselves...... suspension  kits are designed around rider weight and intended riding style, so if you got springs that are too soft for you , I would make sure the proper information was supplied to your vendor, and if it was, they should replace the springs if they got it wrong....

However,just being softer than stock is not a bad thing in itself...are they progressive springs? why do you think they are too soft...can you not get the proper sag set? ..does the fork bottom out?

Offline oxidefilm

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Re: Hyperpro vs Racetech
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2019, 08:54:06 PM »
Yes, I'm not a novice at this. I understand suspension and mechanics. The new springs are nearly identical in length and diameter to the stock.

They are much, much, much too soft. I regularly bottom out and with max preload can't get the right sag. Andreani is an italian company and totally unresponsive to emails and phone calls.

I disagree about too-soft springs and their relationship to seals. Without a proper spring rate, the seals will constantly be under higher than normal pressure and load. With the forks bottoming out on every pothole, the seals are exposed to maximum stress frequently.


Online Crosshairs

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Re: Hyperpro vs Racetech
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2019, 12:09:34 AM »
*Originally Posted by oxidefilm [+]
Yes, I'm not a novice at this. I understand suspension and mechanics. The new springs are nearly identical in length and diameter to the stock.

I didn't mean to imply you were a novice, I was just offering information that you may not have been aware of.

*Originally Posted by oxidefilm [+]
They are much, much, much too soft. I regularly bottom out and with max preload can't get the right sag. Andreani is an italian company and totally unresponsive to emails and phone calls.

Its ironic that yours are too soft,  Andreani has a reputation for  being over sprung and overdamped with most of their fork setups.
They are a good bit cheaper than most other options, but their service and reputation is quite lacking as you found out.

*Originally Posted by oxidefilm [+]
I disagree about too-soft springs and their relationship to seals. Without a proper spring rate, the seals will constantly be under higher than normal pressure and load. With the forks bottoming out on every pothole, the seals are exposed to maximum stress frequently.


cartridge forks dont work that way... the pressure is internal to the cartridge and they are designed to hydraulic lock when bottomed..this is  done internal to the cartridge itself...because of this, they don't put any more stress on the seals than when the pistons are in any other place in the stroke.

In any event, I hope you get it sorted out... and if you're looking for a top notch fork set up, look into a Traxxion Dynamics AK-20 kit.... not  cheap at about $1100.00 if you install them yourself ($1350 if you send the forks in)  but it will be worlds better than the Andreani stuff you have now......they are also a US company and answer phones and emails promptly...:)

Offline Dick63

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Re: Hyperpro vs Racetech
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2019, 11:16:00 AM »
I made the modification over the summer.  (Partly due to your earlier reports of your experience.)  I don't have anywhere near the mileage on the rebuilt unit you do.

Not sure how you know, other than feedback, that the spring rate is too low.  I couldn't find ANY markings, on the springs, on the box, on the shipped receipt, that indicate spring rate.  And I just went back to my saved paperwork and looked.

The next part is going to seem argumentative, but I don't mean it that way.  I don't question your knowledge or experience, but I have never done this  kind of switch before, so I bought all the Triumph fork tools and removed the fork tubes, rebuilding using the Triumph instructions, except for the swap.  (Including new seals, etc.)  I thought I had emptied the forks before disassembly, but I was kind of surprised by how much fluid remained in them at two points, once when the bottom bolt was removed, and again when they separated.  I also required several fill/collapse/draw cycles to get the fluid level correct.  That was all probably due to my poor shop skills.

As I recall, you drained the forks from the bottom and installed the cartridges with the tubes in place, and then filled.  Is it possible you over-filled the forks? Did that blow the seals?  Or if under-filled, could that contribute to bottoming?

Again - these are questions to consider.  Nothing more.

I AGREE that I could not set sag after completing my work, but I wasn't confident of my calculated target value, as the target number seemed to be more driven by sport bike experience.  I eventually went back to the Andreanni recommended preload setting and adjusted further based on riding experience.  I increased a bit, but not much. 

The old fork never bottomed on me, but it was "pitchy".  I suspect if I rode off-road, or gained weight, bottoming would have occurred.  New cartridge is smoother riding and with less motion.  I've been using a zip tie stroke indicator, and I believe it is confirming less stroke being used.  Those are perceptions, I don't take and record measurements, and even if I did, I don't know that I ride a repeatable manner for valid test results.

I hope you get it sorted. 
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Offline oxidefilm

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Re: Hyperpro vs Racetech
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2019, 03:02:03 PM »
Crosshairs: Indeed. When I bought the bike, the previous owner had just removed and sold separately a set of traxxions. I didn't have the opportunity then to buy them. Now, the bike is old enough and I'm not so in love with it that I'm interested in spending that much on it.

Dick63: It's totally possible that I didn't drain all the old oil out but I think that wouldn't matter when setting the final oil-level...I think it would just mean there was a quantity of old oil mixed with the new. I actually went back in and re-confirmed the oil-height after a month of riding. How has your experience with them been?

My andreani springs were marked "6.3" with arrows up and down which could really only mean 6.3n/mm (newton millimeters) which converts to .64kg/mm. If memory serves, the stock spring rate is .67kg/mm. I know it's a bit controversial but the racetech calculator recommends a .98kg/mm spring rate for me.

The stock springs will fit the new cartridges. Perhaps I'll give them a try although for $100, I should probably just order a set of racetechs.

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Re: Hyperpro vs Racetech
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2019, 04:29:14 PM »
*Originally Posted by oxidefilm [+]

The stock springs will fit the new cartridges. Perhaps I'll give them a try although for $100, I should probably just order a set of racetechs.

my bike is a 14 and I have the stock springs sitting here doing nothing........if they will fit your bike you can have them for the cost of shipping....from NJ to NY I cant imaging that would be very much

Offline oxidefilm

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Re: Hyperpro vs Racetech
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2019, 05:16:08 PM »
Thanks. I still have my original hardware.

Offline Dick63

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Re: Hyperpro vs Racetech
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2019, 11:01:55 AM »
Oxide

If you measured the height of the fluid, I agree you didn't overfill it.  Especially if you went back and measured it twice.  (I just couldn't recall whether you measured the height or poured in a measured volume of fluid. )

And I sure didn't spot any marks like you described.  Were those marks engraved on the springs, or on some sort of tag?  Doesn't matter now, I guess, but I am still a bit curious as to what spring constant they shipped me.  I did send the vendor an inquiry by email, but never received a reply.  I guess that is a common non-response.  (I think the vendor was Omnia Racing, not Andreani. May be just one company though.) 

As far as results go, I am pretty happy. But as I noted, I don't have your mileage on the modification yet, and I haven't had the opportunity to take a multi-day trip over back roads since I finished the work, only commuting and local running around.  (Work just didn't give me the opportunity for a long ride last summer/fall.) 
Dick63

 


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