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Offline coolhand

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Doing valve clearances - strange shim size
« on: March 03, 2019, 11:20:33 AM »
Hi all,

I did search the forums, but I could not find anything like what I am about to ask.

I am doing the valve clearance adjustment on my bike. It has run 36000 km. After measuring the clearance, it seems all the valves need adjustment, atthoug some are very close to spec.

So, I picked out the shims, and measured them myself. Now, what puzzles me is this: On the shims there is a number which I assume is the thickness of the shim. Most of the shims read 235, which I assume is 2,35mm (and this corresponds to my measurement - which by the way is not good enough, as I need to buy a new measure that has resolution down to 0,01mm, but that is another story).

Some of the shims read 232. WTF? 2,32mm???? Ain't no such shim. Or is there???


Online JG_XRT

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Re: Doing valve clearances - strange shim size
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2019, 11:43:59 AM »
I have 2 "variety packs" of shims from Hot Cams.

They both go up in 0.05mm increments.

No 2.32mm there.

Maybe Triumph specs there own shims?
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Offline Dick63

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Re: Doing valve clearances - strange shim size
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2019, 01:19:46 PM »
The Triumph parts catalog lists shims available from 1.700 mm to 3.000 mm in increments of 0.025 mm   

https://www.triumphestore.com/a/Triumph_2013_Tiger-Explorer/_51507_7463305/Cylinder-Head-amp-Valves/100063201-2-2.html

My OWN experience is that the three dealers "closest" to me (50 miles, 90 miles, 110 miles) DO NOT keep shims in stock, they have had to order them.  This lengthened the downtime significantly.  (It MAY be that they keep their stock for customers have valve adjustments performed, otherwise customer valve adjustments would be subject to the same delay.  But none of the three had any for sale over the counter that day.)

So I have pre-purchased a large Hot Shims kit for my next adjustment ...  I hope it is adequate. 


« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 01:22:58 PM by Dick63 »
Dick63

Offline coolhand

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Re: Doing valve clearances - strange shim size
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2019, 04:53:29 PM »
A-ha!!!!

That explains it: 2.325 is 232. Didnt know they made shims in 0,025 increments.

Tomorrow I am going to get a micrometer, and then measure the shims. I will then order new ones from wemoto or some other. The local dealer charges 10 euro for one shim..... so I will wait a week or two instead. It is too cold to drive anyway. A set like the one you mention will not help me much, as I probably need 7 or 8 of the same size. So I measure, calculate, and order the ones I need.

According to my calculations, I will be able ot make do with shims in 0,05-increments. But I might order from the shop you kinked to, as this will make it easy for me to place a shim that is in the middle of the specs, making it more likely that I dont need to reshim after measuring the new clearance.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 04:59:43 PM by coolhand »

Offline Dick63

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Re: Doing valve clearances - strange shim size
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2019, 05:07:50 PM »
In the case of my own valve adjustment experience,  I didn't order shims from Hermes.  (But I wish I had …  )   

I have ordered other Triumph parts and specialty tools from them, though.  They ship promptly and are reliable. 

I have no idea if they will ship to you, but they do answer email, so ask them … 

Good luck
Dick63

Offline CaptainTrips

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Re: Doing valve clearances - strange shim size
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2019, 05:19:52 PM »
When I did my own 20k service, I found many factory shims that were on 0.025 mm increments. I had ordered a Hot Cams assortment of 0.05 shims and had to do some juggling to make things work. Even then, I found that I needed more than the 5 shims supplied in the kit for each size increment, so had to go to my local Triumph dealer to swap shims. They were swapping from the same Hot Cams kit that I have.

Next time, I would be tempted to make minor adjusts to the thickness of a couple of shims by rubbing them on a Japanese wet stone.
"The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test."   --   Robert M. Pirsig

Offline Deep6blue

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Re: Doing valve clearances - strange shim size
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2019, 02:27:00 AM »
I was informed once that valve clearances tighten over time. So if you have to choose between a shim that’s a bit tight or loose within the specified range, go toward the loose end.

Please correct me if I’m wrong. 

Offline CaptainTrips

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Re: Doing valve clearances - strange shim size
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2019, 03:24:08 AM »
 :0461: That's correct.
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Online Will Morgan

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Re: Doing valve clearances - strange shim size
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2019, 09:22:54 AM »
*Originally Posted by CaptainTrips [+]
Next time, I would be tempted to make minor adjusts to the thickness of a couple of shims by rubbing them on a Japanese wet stone.

I admit this is metallurgy & mechanical  engineering way beyond my pay grade, but in the dim recesses of my memory I recall being advised not to "adjust" shim thickness because it can remove the hardened surface. I assume although an "adjusted" shim might work fine at first it would then wear prematurely. Do you have any comment on that? Or is it just a manufacturer's ploy to get us to pay for more shims?

Offline Dick63

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Re: Doing valve clearances - strange shim size
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2019, 11:36:48 AM »
Coolhand

"  ...  Tomorrow I am going to get a micrometer, and then measure the shims. I will then order new ones from wemoto or some other. The local dealer charges 10 euro for one shim..... so I will wait a week or two instead. It is too cold to drive anyway. A set like the one you mention will not help me much, as I probably need 7 or 8 of the same size. So I measure, calculate, and order the ones I need  ...   "

Based on my experience, I would not assume you would need so many of the same size.  In the first place, using only my bike as the basis, the original shims varied in size.  Exhaust varied between 2.31 to 2.63 mm  Intake were more consistent, 2.40 to 2.45 mm   (These are my measurements, using my inexpensive Chinese micrometer, I don't know what the production sizes were. 

From my records, I ordered 2x 2.200, and 1 each 2.250, 2.230 and 2.240.  I was able to "economize" twice by swapping a to be removed shim to another locations.  (I saved my chart and calcs.)   Since I ordered over the counter at the closest dealer, I paid a slightly different price.  $8.47 per shim, plus shipping and saies tax.

So, as you can see, I COULD have gotten by with the kit.  But I only changed those that were out of spec and I changed to put them back in spec, favoring loose, but not necessarily trying to get maximum clearance.  Having been through the process now, the next time I do it, I will make all the changes necessary to max everything out.  If you can absorb the downtime and cost, that is what I would advise.

Good luck

Dick63

 


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