Author Topic: Understeer?  (Read 1450 times)

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#10

Offline ExplorerMP

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Re: Understeer?
Reply #10 on: October 02, 2021, 02:21:27 PM
*Originally Posted by Dragon88 [+]
Just change the springs. It is a cheap and highly effective way to significantly improve handling and braking. You are just wasting your time otherwise.

I've done this on multiple bikes, always with good results. But those bikes had the option of adjustable rebound and compression damping. Without that option, there will probably be improvements possible but only to a certain extent. And new cartridges........that would be quite expensive.
Let's see what happens when I change the preload.

*Originally Posted by CraptainC [+]
Hi....
An adventure bike with big wheels is never going to turn as tight asa sports bike  :027:
If you feel that the bike is starting to run wide mid-corner, you could always try gently applying a little rear break. It takes a bit of practice, but can help the bike turn a bit tighter.
Alternatively you might want to consider using the trail breaking technique, although as this relies on using the front break while cornering it takes a lot more practice.

I tried both on my XCA to good effect (particularly when riding 'enthusiastically' :164:)  , but many people don't like to touch the breaks at all during cornering - definitely don't want to be grabbing a hand full mid corner !!!

Not for everyone, but if you've tried everything mechanical it might be worth considering.

 :821:
CC

I certainly do not fancy more sportive bikes and the way they handle trough corners. Sure they are capable of turning tight corners but I like my bikes a bit more stable. Tbh, I don't think of myself as a very good medium/high speed corner biker. I have considered practicing trail braking but I think it will take more than a little practice for me.
Maybe changing the tyre pressure and preload might a good place to start improving the understeer character. After that, changing the springs or changing the biker........

#11

Offline guiri

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Re: Understeer?
Reply #11 on: October 02, 2021, 05:00:39 PM
*Originally Posted by ExplorerMP [+]
I have considered practicing trail braking but I think it will take more than a little practice for me.

I would recommend learning to use the brakes safely in a corner, and trail braking is the best way (IMHO) because you are already on the brakes going into the corner and there is less risk of a sudden input which can destabilise the bike. Why brake in a corner? It's a good way to change the geometry of the bike to get it to turn in quicker, equally if you are running wide then being able to (add) brake safely could stop you from running off the road completely. The idea of trail braking though is you never put yourself in that position in the first place; you are always in control and only come off the brakes when you can see a clear exit.

There are some great videos on YouTube, I especially recommend Brett Tkacs and MotoJitsu (and of course you need to practice as you mention).

I was taught as a beginner not to touch the brakes in a corner (and also by the way not to cover the front brake) and it took a long time to get over this limitation in my riding. Any instructors please correct me if I've got the wrong end of the stick myself!

Cheers
guiri

#12

Offline Dragon88

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Re: Understeer?
Reply #12 on: October 03, 2021, 12:42:51 AM
*Originally Posted by ExplorerMP [+]
I've done this on multiple bikes, always with good results. But those bikes had the option of adjustable rebound and compression damping. Without that option, there will probably be improvements possible but only to a certain extent. And new cartridges........that would be quite expensive.
Let's see what happens when I change the preload.

I certainly do not fancy more sportive bikes and the way they handle trough corners. Sure they are capable of turning tight corners but I like my bikes a bit more stable. Tbh, I don't think of myself as a very good medium/high speed corner biker. I have considered practicing trail braking but I think it will take more than a little practice for me.
Maybe changing the tyre pressure and preload might a good place to start improving the understeer character. After that, changing the springs or changing the biker........

I would suggest diddly squat will change mate. The stock suspension sucks full stop. I found that a simple spring made an enormous improvement to the bike. You might be surprised. around a hundred bucks and an hour or so labour. Easy mod.

#13

Offline Icy

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Re: Understeer?
Reply #13 on: October 03, 2021, 02:50:11 AM
*Originally Posted by ExplorerMP [+]
My 2014 TEX XC seems to have quite some understeer in corners at medium to higher speed. Since the suspension is not adjustable (except pre-load) there seems to be nothing I can do about this.
Is it normal for the TEX XC to have quite a lot of understeer? And is there anything I can do about it without replacing the OEM springs?

Honestly I never felt that understeer at all. Is this your first bike? Unfamiliarity with the weight, dynamics, tyres / tyre pressure type of thing? I mean, it's a f'ing heavy bike but I never felt that problem tbh.
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#14

Offline ExplorerMP

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Re: Understeer?
Reply #14 on: October 03, 2021, 10:04:13 AM
*Originally Posted by guiri [+]
I would recommend learning to use the brakes safely in a corner, and trail braking is the best way (IMHO) because you are already on the brakes going into the corner and there is less risk of a sudden input which can destabilise the bike. Why brake in a corner? It's a good way to change the geometry of the bike to get it to turn in quicker, equally if you are running wide then being able to (add) brake safely could stop you from running off the road completely. The idea of trail braking though is you never put yourself in that position in the first place; you are always in control and only come off the brakes when you can see a clear exit.

There are some great videos on YouTube, I especially recommend Brett Tkacs and MotoJitsu (and of course you need to practice as you mention).

I was taught as a beginner not to touch the brakes in a corner (and also by the way not to cover the front brake) and it took a long time to get over this limitation in my riding. Any instructors please correct me if I've got the wrong end of the stick myself!

Cheers
guiri

It's definitely something I can improve on. I have my motorcycle drivers license for more than 20 years but I'm still not a cornering dare devil. Not that one has to be (relaxed touring is also nice) but sometimes I might go a bit faster.

*Originally Posted by Icy [+]
Honestly I never felt that understeer at all. Is this your first bike? Unfamiliarity with the weight, dynamics, tyres / tyre pressure type of thing? I mean, it's a f'ing heavy bike but I never felt that problem tbh.

I's not my first bike. I've had 9 bikes (two of which I still have) and one of them (a XL1000V Varadero) was just about as heavy as my Tiger Explorer. In fact, with the after market exhaust the Tiger is a bit lighter. The Varadero didn't have the understeer issue though. But it wasn't as top heavy as the Tiger. I'm pretty sure that is part of what is the "challenge" with the Tiger.
Of course there is some "getting used" to the bike. But I found the understeering quite noticable.

#15

Offline Icy

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Re: Understeer?
Reply #15 on: October 04, 2021, 03:44:39 AM
 :169: Could very well be the sudden dipping feel of the top heavy nature of the motorcycle. I wonder if there's something interesting with the tyres on it. I once didn't realize that I had been over-inflating the front tyre and after a long trip I corrected the pressure and I swear at lean angles the bike felt like it would fly from underneath me; I had inadvertently flattened the top of the front about half an inch section. I feel like I am almost half-way not in control of that bike on Tourances for example. Put a pair of Michelin Anakees on it and I can drag my knee. For me tyres are everything... (just mumbling, sharing at 11PM on a Sunday)

Also, I'd be curious to hear what you think - if you ever get a chance to test-ride a Gen3, which has very different riding and steering dynamics - for fun.
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#16

Offline Chippy4467

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Re: Understeer?
Reply #16 on: October 04, 2021, 07:52:16 AM
If you feel that the bike is starting to run wide mid-corner, you could always try gently applying a little rear break. It takes a bit of practice, but can help the bike turn a bit tighter.
Pushing on the inside bar will always help it turn better as well
Chippy

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#17

Offline ExplorerMP

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Re: Understeer?
Reply #17 on: October 09, 2021, 09:20:34 PM
I brought the tyre pressure to 2.48 and 2.9, as advised by Triumph. And I preloaded the rear shock a bit more, it had 21 (?) clicks and I brought it back to 12 (clicks from the most preloaded setting). This changes the geometry of the bike. It did change the steering characteristics and resulted in less understeer.
I'm planning on changing the fork springs too.