Author Clutch biting point  (Read 5340 times)

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  • Offline Telbags   gb

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    Re: Clutch biting point
    Reply #80 on: September 20, 2022, 11:33:35 pm
    September 20, 2022, 11:33:35 pm
    bought the recommended levers... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/383764653564

     :062:

    they were a doddle to fit and both the clutch and brakes (after bleeding) are very much improved.

    Clutch grabs at just the right point on setting 1 and then i have 5 more settings to play with. Have kept the original levers, as spares, but cannot recommend these replacement levers shighly enough

     :464:

    brilliant! Thanks for the pointer...
    All Bikes are equal. But some Bikes are more equal than others.

  • Offline RL71   nl

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    Re: Clutch biting point
    Reply #81 on: September 21, 2022, 07:50:24 am
    September 21, 2022, 07:50:24 am
    *Originally Posted by Telbags [+]
    bought the recommended levers... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/383764653564

     :062:

    they were a doddle to fit and both the clutch and brakes (after bleeding) are very much improved.

    Clutch grabs at just the right point on setting 1 and then i have 5 more settings to play with. Have kept the original levers, as spares, but cannot recommend these replacement levers shighly enough

     :464:

    brilliant! Thanks for the pointer...

    Great the levers are good. I have the same experience.

    Next time: buy them at http://www.sekitobaracing.com directly! Much cheaper!
    Last Edit: September 21, 2022, 08:12:16 am by RL71
    Triumph Tiger 1200 XCA (2018)
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  • Offline GerPa   au

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    Re: Clutch biting point
    Reply #82 on: September 22, 2022, 01:12:34 pm
    September 22, 2022, 01:12:34 pm
    *Originally Posted by GerPa [+]
    After 2 Sets (according to the manufacturers the 1st Set got lost) and waiting nearly 6 weeks, The levers finally arrived in Australia.(2 days after I left for a 2500Klms LDR in Outback Queensland) And as depicted in the attached photo the only difference between the Sobitkobo Lever and the Standards is the shape of the actual lever itself, the Geometry of the actuation points is identical. it's just the shape and the ability to adjust the lever closer to the hand grip.

    Anyway, they are fitted and I will see How they go next outing.

    Rgds
    Gerry D




    Well, Gents ( 2016 1200 XCa Fitted with Rippa Grips)

    I went for a spin around the block, and, as I previously thought, there was some snake oil or smoke & mirrors :038: in these levers.(and as the picture above depicts it can be no other way) In My Opinion, The Clutch release is in the exact same place as previously, the only difference is that the lever is now closer to the grip thus giving you a slightly different feel as you don't have to reach out so far to get around the lever. The Brake lever works fine on mine and clears the grips with no problem ( about 10 to 12mm clearance) except that I need to have it on the second setting otherwise it squashes no 4 & 5 finger as my index and middle finger apply the brake lever.

  • Offline NiK   fr

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    Re: Clutch biting point
    Reply #83 on: September 22, 2022, 01:40:53 pm
    September 22, 2022, 01:40:53 pm
    *Originally Posted by GerPa [+]
    as I previously thought, there was some snake oil or smoke & mirrors
    Interesting thoughts!
    And after much thinking, I think you're right. And wrong ;-)

    You're right that the aftermarket levers probably are as close as possible to the stock ones in the actuator department. Therefore, the biting point has to be the same.

    However, what we riders perceive as the biting point is the measure of fingers extension at said biting point. And here lies the "magic" IMHO. The shape of the stem modifies this measure, hence the perceived benefit. Fine movements are more precise with fingers flexed than extended. So having the lever closer to the grips (for a given clutch action) would give better finger control.

    Makes sense?

  • Offline Dave354   gb

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    Re: Clutch biting point
    Reply #84 on: September 22, 2022, 03:59:08 pm
    September 22, 2022, 03:59:08 pm
    *Originally Posted by NiK [+]
    Interesting thoughts!
    And after much thinking, I think you're right. And wrong ;-)

    You're right that the aftermarket levers probably are as close as possible to the stock ones in the actuator department. Therefore, the biting point has to be the same.

    However, what we riders perceive as the biting point is the measure of fingers extension at said biting point. And here lies the "magic" IMHO. The shape of the stem modifies this measure, hence the perceived benefit. Fine movements are more precise with fingers flexed than extended. So having the lever closer to the grips (for a given clutch action) would give better finger control.

    Makes sense?

    👍👍👍👍👍👍 :0461:

  • Offline Telbags   gb

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    Offline Telbags

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    Re: Clutch biting point
    Reply #85 on: September 22, 2022, 06:09:34 pm
    September 22, 2022, 06:09:34 pm
     :028:

    so, here's food for thought...

    as mentioned earlier, our perception of the biting point is what changes, not the biting point....

    And i noticed, during fitting, you have to change over a couple of parts from the old clutch lever to the new, including the short rod that acctuates on the hydraulics.

    has anyone given consideration to taking 0.5 mm to 1mm off the flat end of the rod to see what the impact is on the distance the clutch lever needs to travel to bite? i'd be tempted to test this if i had a spare part to replace the rod if it proved to be unsuccessful.

    Also, as the only real change is the shape of the clutch lever (and we know how easy they bend when we drop the bike) how about heating and bending the existing lever just the right amount to give the same effect of the replacement levers?Just a thought...and no, i havent tried either...

     :155:

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  • Offline GerPa   au

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    Re: Clutch biting point
    Reply #86 on: September 23, 2022, 01:37:49 am
    September 23, 2022, 01:37:49 am
    *Originally Posted by NiK [+]
    Interesting thoughts!
    And after much thinking, I think you're right. And wrong ;-)


    Makes sense?

    Well Nick
    I don't follow what part I am wrong  :084:, as It appears that we are both on the "same page" and really it is a perception thing due to the grip or extension of your fingers. So Smoke and Mirrors is alive and well and like all things motorcycles its up to the individualizing of the bikes and that's about where it ends.

    Make Sence? :008:

  • Offline NiK   fr

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    Re: Clutch biting point
    Reply #87 on: September 23, 2022, 07:57:33 am
    September 23, 2022, 07:57:33 am
    Right in that the actual biting point doesn't change.
    Wrong in that the perceived biting point does change and this would not completely qualify as snake oil.

    Anyway, thank you for having brought facts to debunk excessively miraculous (I'm talking mostly for myself ;-) perceived changes!

  • Offline CaptainTrips   ca

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    Re: Clutch biting point
    Reply #88 on: September 23, 2022, 04:26:40 pm
    September 23, 2022, 04:26:40 pm
    *Originally Posted by NiK [+]
    Right in that the actual biting point doesn't change.
    Wrong in that the perceived biting point does change and this would not completely qualify as snake oil.

    Anyway, thank you for having brought facts to debunk excessively miraculous (I'm talking mostly for myself ;-) perceived changes!
    This is basically what I've been saying. The lever is closer to the grip at the point of engagement, hence the lever travel is also reduced. That's all these levers do.

    Either Bike or Ride mag talked about this in their annual staff bike games article. This generation of the 1200 has an extremely limited 'grey area' where the clutch can be slipped. The result, as the mag described it, was a clutch that was either on or off. The only way to really fix this is to change the master cylinder.
    Last Edit: September 23, 2022, 04:39:54 pm by CaptainTrips
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  • Offline NiK   fr

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    Re: Clutch biting point
    Reply #89 on: September 23, 2022, 05:17:44 pm
    September 23, 2022, 05:17:44 pm
    *Originally Posted by CaptainTrips [+]
    The only way to really fix this is to change the master cylinder.
    I don't quite get it. Do you mean a master cylinder with, for instance, a longer cylinder?

     



    nonskid