Tiger Explorer

Main Tiger Explorer Discussion Boards => General Maintenance and Servicing => Topic started by: anaheimtex on October 27, 2018, 12:02:26 AM

Title: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: anaheimtex on October 27, 2018, 12:02:26 AM
Well bike gotta go in. Finished an 1100 mile trip through Midwest where the bike ran flawlessly. Few hot start issues where took a few tries to get started. Now tried to reboot via idle for 15 minutes but bike stalls during. Idle really rough. Plugged evap canister (California sh#t) no help. Weird thing is some days there is nothing wrong. Others yuck. Tech on the phone said valves might be the issue. Seems odd since it is intermittent. See alighting the throttles help.
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: Traxx on October 27, 2018, 01:28:02 AM
I had the same issue with a BMW F800GS and it turned out to be the little stone in the check valve.
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: Griff on October 27, 2018, 03:51:14 PM
*Originally Posted by anaheimtex [+]
Well bike gotta go in. Finished an 1100 mile trip through Midwest where the bike ran flawlessly. Few hot start issues where took a few tries to get started. Now tried to reboot via idle for 15 minutes but bike stalls during. Idle really rough. Plugged evap canister (California sh#t) no help. Weird thing is some days there is nothing wrong. Others yuck. Tech on the phone said valves might be the issue. Seems odd since it is intermittent. See alighting the throttles help.

Are you overly zealous with washing or a pressure washer ?   I saw a 1st generation once that was doing a Tech's head in with this intermittent poor running with no error codes. He eventually found water and corrosion in one or two of the main loom connectors. Problem solved.
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: anaheimtex on October 28, 2018, 09:05:49 PM
Wash. Hahaha. At dealer. Letting them diagnose the issue. Needs valve adjust and throttle synchronized anyway. 
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: anaheimtex on October 30, 2018, 08:44:28 PM
update :232:, seems an exhaust valve is burned out.  warrantee expired one day before.  so the dealer is trying to get triumph to good will parts but labor is all me.  Either way, bike getting fixed then sold.  off to bmw for me. 
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: eps on October 30, 2018, 09:30:37 PM
Does seem a bit odd if it was an intermittant fault. Whats mileage ? Were the valve clearances checked properly ? I have nearly 30k on mine now - no problems
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: anaheimtex on October 31, 2018, 02:56:54 AM
25k miles. All service intervals completed.
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: XCaTel on October 31, 2018, 08:54:01 AM
You would suspect that the valve service was not carried out properly at 20K, was it done at a dealer or an independent? Is there a record of what the valve clearances were at the 20k service and what if any corrective action was taken with new shims? If the valve is burnt out it points a finger at it not closing fully due to the clearance closing up.
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: anaheimtex on October 31, 2018, 02:35:12 PM
No such record for my bike.  But your are right.  Or could just be a crappy valve.  I will look at the valve in question when they remove the head.  Im still skeptical about a valve being the culprit.  I better see a damaged valve or stuck open when head removed 
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: CaptainTrips on October 31, 2018, 02:50:48 PM
*Originally Posted by anaheimtex [+]
No such record for my bike.  But your are right.  Or could just be a crappy valve.  I will look at the valve in question when they remove the head.  Im still skeptical about a valve being the culprit.  I better see a damaged valve or stuck open when head removed
The exhaust valve will burn if the valve clearance goes to zero. Shim and bucket valves tighten (not loosen) as they wear. I would suspect that the exhaust valve was not adjusted correctly (or at all) during the 20k major service. They should check the valve clearance FIRST before they take the engine apart.
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: Griff on November 01, 2018, 09:42:09 AM
Don't recall another such instance on here. As suggested above such an issue is usually related to incorrect clearance adjustment or not being done at all.
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: anaheimtex on November 01, 2018, 10:43:29 PM
Valve clearances all within speck when they did compression check. Talked to corporate and my dealer. Seems I’m not the only one with this issue. Hopefully good will will prevail.
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: Griff on November 02, 2018, 12:15:38 PM
*Originally Posted by anaheimtex [+]
Valve clearances all within speck when they did compression check.

I am curious about this. Is the implication that the shop checked the valve clearances by only checking compression or something else ?
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: XCaTel on November 02, 2018, 12:18:26 PM
*Originally Posted by Griff [+]
I am curious about this. Is the implication that the shop checked the valve clearances by only checking compression or something else ?
Yes, it just doesn't ring true. There is no way you can check the valve clearance with a compression check.  :033: You can check compression with a compression check  :008: The inference being that the valve seat, valve stem seal or piston rings are shot if there is a lack of compression.
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: CaptainTrips on November 02, 2018, 03:16:23 PM
*Originally Posted by XCaTel [+]
Yes, it just doesn't ring true. There is no way you can check the valve clearance with a compression check.  :033: You can check compression with a compression check  :008: The inference being that the valve seat, valve stem seal or piston rings are shot if there is a lack of compression.
:0461: If this is the same shop that did the 20k service, then I would be doubtful too. The only other valve issue that I have heard of in relation to these bikes is the head coming off a valve due to soft valve guides installed in the first production run of the TEX in 2012 / 13.
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: anaheimtex on November 02, 2018, 05:21:51 PM
Agree with everything posted. The valve clearance was checked prior to compression check to rule out. Either way it has been 12500 mile since checked adjusted. Tough to prove either way. Over a barrel no
Matter what. The dealer has a good rep.
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: CaptainTrips on November 03, 2018, 05:37:12 PM
*Originally Posted by anaheimtex [+]
The valve clearance was checked prior to compression check to rule out. Either way it has been 12500 mile since checked adjusted. T
So, with 24K miles on the clock, the valve adjustment was done at 12k miles instead of the at 20k miles as per the maintenance schedule? Was the valve timing done at 12k miles also?
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: anaheimtex on November 03, 2018, 05:57:43 PM
First one done at 10k per triumph. Checked again at 20k but all in speck.
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: CaptainTrips on November 04, 2018, 05:48:17 PM
*Originally Posted by anaheimtex [+]
First one done at 10k per triumph. Checked again at 20k but all in speck.
So it was actually 4k miles from the last valve check?
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: anaheimtex on November 06, 2018, 03:40:05 AM
My valves have never needed adjustment. Even the first one.   I had them check them before a long trip when The Whole 20k or 10k service discussion. All fine. Not noisy not tight. Best case I pay nothing for repairs. Worst I do. Test rode a ktm 1290 r. Really nice bikes.
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: CaptainTrips on November 06, 2018, 04:16:24 AM
*Originally Posted by anaheimtex [+]
My valves have never needed adjustment. Even the first one.   I had them check them before a long trip when The Whole 20k or 10k service discussion. All fine. Not noisy not tight. Best case I pay nothing for repairs. Worst I do. Test rode a ktm 1290 r. Really nice bikes.
Having done my own 20k service and found that 10 of the 12 valves were out of spec, it makes me wonder if they actually did the valve checks. Something doesn't add up.
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: anaheimtex on November 06, 2018, 02:30:20 PM
Agreed.
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: anaheimtex on November 10, 2018, 07:58:47 PM
Update. The exhaust valve would not seat on 3/4 of the valve. So the valve was bent and would not seat. No damage or cracks. So claim sent to triumph to see if they good will the parts and labor. Updates to follow.
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: Griff on November 10, 2018, 09:00:28 PM
Very strange indeed. Did it ever slip out of gear under full power ?
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: CaptainTrips on November 10, 2018, 11:28:07 PM
*Originally Posted by anaheimtex [+]
Update. The exhaust valve would not seat on 3/4 of the valve. So the valve was bent and would not seat. No damage or cracks. So claim sent to triumph to see if they good will the parts and labor. Updates to follow.
That's pretty much exactly the scenario that happened to those who had a first generation TEX with soft valve guides. In some cases, the valve head separated causing total engine failure. There was a major head replacement program under a series of service bulletins. Mine was one of them (an early 2013 model).
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: anaheimtex on November 21, 2018, 10:02:05 PM
Well T good willing all parts required to put bike right. NOT labor. So guess I’m eating $2600.
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: Crosshairs on November 21, 2018, 10:39:27 PM
*Originally Posted by anaheimtex [+]
My valves have never needed adjustment. Even the first one.   I had them check them before a long trip when The Whole 20k or 10k service discussion. All fine. Not noisy not tight.

That's almost unheard of...I think when this is over you need to find another shop....30 years of riding and wrenching and not once have I come across a valve train  that was still in spec at the first valve check....  Im sure its possible, its just not likely
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: CaptainTrips on November 22, 2018, 05:12:04 AM
*Originally Posted by Crosshairs [+]
That's almost unheard of...I think when this is over you need to find another shop....30 years of riding and wrenching and not once have I come across a valve train  that was still in spec at the first valve check....  Im sure its possible, its just not likely
:0461:
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: anaheimtex on November 23, 2018, 05:53:37 PM
Maybe...just don’t know. But what is for certain are the valve guides failing. Valve adjustment is a moot point. The valves were not noisy and they were not stuck open from being to tight. No other valves on the head were burned and the seats nice and shiny. The problem ones in the oblong valve guide holes were hitting on an angle. Valves not bent either. Just my crap luck.
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: CaptainTrips on November 24, 2018, 04:05:32 AM
*Originally Posted by anaheimtex [+]
The problem ones in the oblong valve guide holes were hitting on an angle. Valves not bent either. Just my crap luck.
That should not be your problem. The soft valve guide problem was a known issue in 2012 and 2013 models. Other owners have been given consideration, even though they are second owners and their bikes are out of warranty. 
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: ijinak on November 24, 2018, 04:02:24 PM
*Originally Posted by anaheimtex [+]
update :232:, seems an exhaust valve is burned out.  warrantee expired one day before.  so the dealer is trying to get triumph to good will parts but labor is all me.  Either way, bike getting fixed then sold.  off to bmw for me.
Apparently (as I was informed by a couple who borrowed my garage to service their BMWs) BMW stands for "Bike Might Work" after they were stranded more than once in S.America
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: anaheimtex on November 24, 2018, 05:15:02 PM
KTM.  I would never buy a BMW.  all my bad mouthing BMW must have rubbed off of auto correct.  lol
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: anaheimtex on November 24, 2018, 05:16:46 PM
*Originally Posted by CaptainTrips [+]
That should not be your problem. The soft valve guide problem was a known issue in 2012 and 2013 models. Other owners have been given consideration, even though they are second owners and their bikes are out of warranty.

Triumph covered all parts to fix my bike.  Labor not. 
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: Crosshairs on November 24, 2018, 07:17:42 PM
*Originally Posted by anaheimtex [+]
KTM.  I would never buy a BMW.  all my bad mouthing BMW must have rubbed off of auto correct.  lol


My Buddy has a KTM..he nicknamed it ATM. I think the loan payments and the maintenance cost are about the same...:)
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: CaptainTrips on November 25, 2018, 06:10:46 PM
*Originally Posted by anaheimtex [+]
Triumph covered all parts to fix my bike.  Labor not.
It is troubling that the soft valve guide problem continued into the 2014 model year. Was your bike outside of the VIN range for the original service bulletin and head replacements? Maybe this was a left-over head from the earlier production runs. Anyway, you should be getting an all-new cylinder head and valves.
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: FL_Explorer on November 28, 2018, 03:37:19 AM
If I’m not mistaken, the problem slipped into early 2014 models based on the VIN run. I recall being worried after I passed on a new 2013 for $9999 to buy my 2014. I very quickly checked and found my VIN was outside the range.
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: CaptainTrips on November 28, 2018, 04:20:38 PM
*Originally Posted by FL_Explorer [+]
If I’m not mistaken, the problem slipped into early 2014 models based on the VIN run. I recall being worried after I passed on a new 2013 for $9999 to buy my 2014. I very quickly checked and found my VIN was outside the range.
If that is the case, then this is another example of why the head replacement program should have been a full recall rather than left on a case-by-case basis at the discretion of dealers.
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: anaheimtex on November 30, 2018, 03:52:05 AM
It all part of the grand scheme. I know makers avoid the dreaded recall notice at all cost. I actually don’t know if my vin falls in the range or not.
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: SimonTEX on November 30, 2018, 09:01:53 AM
slightly off topic but it's interesting all the development going on generally  in valve train tech at the moment , mainly all for higher revs and power. Bmw have hollow valve stems in titanium , sliding cams (though that's not new) etc .  Also finger valve rockers instead of bucket and shim are making a comeback. my kawasaki had that in the nineties! they where adjustable too, no faffing around with measuring shims. The whole business of valve servicing on modern bike engines is costly.  the design is simpler to make but a pain to service , specially for home mechanics.
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: CaptainTrips on November 30, 2018, 04:32:55 PM
*Originally Posted by anaheimtex [+]
It all part of the grand scheme. I know makers avoid the dreaded recall notice at all cost. I actually don’t know if my vin falls in the range or not.
VIN range for head replacement - lower than 602960
Title: Re: Hard to start. Stalling at lights
Post by: anaheimtex on December 01, 2018, 04:34:13 AM
Thanks