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Main Tiger Explorer Discussion Boards => Tiger Explorer - General Discussion => Topic started by: RoadWarrior1978 on December 14, 2018, 05:05:00 PM

Title: Tex clutch mod / warranty repair.
Post by: RoadWarrior1978 on December 14, 2018, 05:05:00 PM
Long story short,  had my gen 2 in for clutch to be looked at under warranty due to judder, they had it for one day and returned it to me on Wednesday having replaced a washer.

In fairness it felt much better,  however I received a phone call from Fowlers Motorcycles who did the the work in the first place,  the gist is they've spoken to Triumph about the issue as it's the first one with this problem that's come their way.

Triumphs response is to have it back and fit a modified clutch. I'll let you guys know how it turns out after the fact.
Title: Re: Tex clutch mod / warranty repair.
Post by: CaptainTrips on December 14, 2018, 05:45:17 PM
I've been living with clutch judder (when the bike is cold) for years. Is your bike still under factory warranty?
Title: Re: Tex clutch mod / warranty repair.
Post by: RoadWarrior1978 on December 14, 2018, 05:59:57 PM
Yes it is until March,  I've not had it long myself so I wanted to het it sorted sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: Tex clutch mod / warranty repair.
Post by: CaptainTrips on December 14, 2018, 06:09:01 PM
*Originally Posted by RoadWarrior1978 [+]
Yes it is until March,  I've not had it long myself so I wanted to het it sorted sooner rather than later.
I'd be interested to know the part number(s) if the clutch assembly has been revised.
Title: Re: Tex clutch mod / warranty repair.
Post by: RoadWarrior1978 on December 14, 2018, 06:21:14 PM
If I can get hold of them I'll happily post them here.
Title: Re: Tex clutch mod / warranty repair.
Post by: wrinkley on December 17, 2018, 01:11:20 PM
*Originally Posted by RoadWarrior1978 [+]
Long story short,  had my gen 2 in for clutch to be looked at under warranty due to judder, they had it for one day and returned it to me on Wednesday having replaced a washer.

In fairness it felt much better,  however I received a phone call from Fowlers Motorcycles who did the the work in the first place,  the gist is they've spoken to Triumph about the issue as it's the first one with this problem that's come their way.

Triumphs response is to have it back and fit a modified clutch. I'll let you guys know how it turns out after the fact.


I think it's fairy unlikely that there are dealers that have not come across this as Triumph have been fitting a modified clutch to Gen1 and gen2 bikes with this problem  for quite a while.

Interestingly I had never had this problem on my gen1 or gen2 bikes but do have it on my Gen3. In fact the owner of my dealership told me he had taken a gen3 out for delivery and had felt it a couple of times. 
Title: Re: Tex clutch mod / warranty repair.
Post by: CaptainTrips on December 17, 2018, 05:12:50 PM
*Originally Posted by wrinkley [+]

I think it's fairy unlikely that there are dealers that have not come across this as Triumph have been fitting a modified clutch to Gen1 and gen2 bikes with this problem  for quite a while.

Interestingly I had never had this problem on my gen1 or gen2 bikes but do have it on my Gen3. In fact the owner of my dealership told me he had taken a gen3 out for delivery and had felt it a couple of times.
If Gen1/2 bikes have been receiving modified clutch parts, then you would not expect Gen3 bikes to have the issue...?
Title: Re: Tex clutch mod / warranty repair.
Post by: eps on December 17, 2018, 08:53:53 PM
*Originally Posted by CaptainTrips [+]
If Gen1/2 bikes have been receiving modified clutch parts, then you would not expect Gen3 bikes to have the issue...?
yes seems strangle that ! never had an issue witth my Gen1 :001:
Title: Re: Tex clutch mod / warranty repair.
Post by: RoadWarrior1978 on December 24, 2018, 04:33:43 PM
Sorry folks, I didn't get the part numbers. However I can report that since having the work done on Friday all judder and snatching has ceased. and feels like a normal clutch should.
Title: Re: Tex clutch mod / warranty repair.
Post by: CaptainTrips on December 24, 2018, 06:14:52 PM
*Originally Posted by RoadWarrior1978 [+]
Sorry folks, I didn't get the part numbers. However I can report that since having the work done on Friday all judder and snatching has ceased. and feels like a normal clutch should.
No worries. Thanks for reporting back.  :002:
Title: Re: Tex clutch mod / warranty repair.
Post by: wrinkley on January 08, 2019, 07:06:25 AM
After discussions with Triumph technical and warranty whilst at the bike show, many new parts were ordered for my clutch, and promptly installed.Sadly there has been no improvement on the operation of the clutch.

The big problem is setting off from a standstill i.e. junctions etc. It is almost impossible to make a quick getaway as pulling away requires a degree of thought. One cannot gently release the clutch whilst feeding in and building the revs. For a smooth getaway with no juddering, the revs first need to be brought up to around 2000rpm then built up as you very gently feed in the clutch. I'm finding that pulling away from a standstill or a junction is no longer an automatic response as it has been for the last 46years, but requires careful thought and considered manipulation of the controls.


The 1200 Tiger really is a fantastic piece of kit and I have also owned both Gen1 and Gen2 bikes, but this problem is really making me consider moving this one on.
Title: Re: Tex clutch mod / warranty repair.
Post by: Icy on January 08, 2019, 01:44:27 PM
I noticed that the auto-revUp feature on my XRx required some adjustments on my clutch habits as well. Now releasing the clutch automatically increases RPM and trying to slip the clutch causes a judder - especially riding in stop & go traffic like I do every-single-day... This is my current solution:

- Back to two finger clutch operation... I had stopped doing that since my sports bike days now I am back to it. I noticed that two fingers on the bar and index and middle finger operating the clutch lands me in the perfect friction zone... If I pull in the clutch all the way (the way I used to with my two Gen1s) then it's almost impossible to smoothly launch - it's either juddery, or a huge RPM leak - it's a hit and miss. The two finger pull with two fingers acting as stopper method I have been quite happy so far.

But yes, I had to adjust, no two ways about it. I really like the auto RPM up feature though - I thought that was missing. It was almost impossible to walk this bike by letting go of the clutch smoothly and playing around with the friction zone like one could with the panzer...

I hope this method helps you as well

 :821:
Title: Re: Tex clutch mod / warranty repair.
Post by: Simmo on January 08, 2019, 02:28:19 PM
Hi All

My 2017 Gen2 XRT falls in the 'juddery when cold' camp when she's up and running at temperature she is fine - and long may she stay so!

The only other feature that can catch me out is Hill Hold Assist - I don't use it all the time (only when necessary) but I do find that balancing the clutch and throttle to overcome the Hill Hold Assist can see me kangarooing off down the road - not very smooth or elegant! Thinking about it, it may be because I use it so infrequently that I've just not got use to it!

Simmo
Title: Re: Tex clutch mod / warranty repair.
Post by: XCaTel on January 08, 2019, 02:52:55 PM
auto RPM up feature?
Title: Re: Tex clutch mod / warranty repair.
Post by: NiK on January 08, 2019, 02:59:59 PM
Since Mk3 (possibly Mk2, I didn't own one), when you slowly release the clutch, there is a slight rpm surge to avoid stalling and allow slow operation without throttling by hand.
Just like on "modern" cars.
Title: Re: Tex clutch mod / warranty repair.
Post by: Simmo on January 08, 2019, 03:52:00 PM
Hi All

Definitely no 'Rev Upperer Device' on Gen2s - all done by feel, or lack of it!

Simmo
Title: Re: Tex clutch mod / warranty repair.
Post by: CaptainTrips on January 08, 2019, 05:06:51 PM
How do you guys with the fulltime judder and takeoff assist on gen3 bikes manage to maneuver at slow speeds without slipping the clutch?  I have the cold judder problem with largely disappears when the bike is fully warmed up. Reading these posts makes think I would be best to not try to upgrade my clutch.

Something similar happened to my 2012 Subaru Forester. After a clutch replacement, I found that any attempt to slip the clutch while doing something like backing uphill out of a drive caused the clutch issue a strong burning smell and judder. The original clutch had been perfect. The replacement was installed by the Subaru dealer and was presumed to be OEM parts. The dealer told me that I didn't know how to drive a standard. Then I talked to another owner of the same car who went through exactly the same experience after a new clutch was installed. I could only conclude that Subaru had changed the clutch material. I traded the car shortly afterward. I hated driving it.
Title: Re: Tex clutch mod / warranty repair.
Post by: wrinkley on January 08, 2019, 05:23:10 PM
*Originally Posted by Icy [+]
I noticed that the auto-revUp feature on my XRx required some adjustments on my clutch habits as well. Now releasing the clutch automatically increases RPM and trying to slip the clutch causes a judder - especially riding in stop & go traffic like I do every-single-day... This is my current solution:

- Back to two finger clutch operation... I had stopped doing that since my sports bike days now I am back to it. I noticed that two fingers on the bar and index and middle finger operating the clutch lands me in the perfect friction zone... If I pull in the clutch all the way (the way I used to with my two Gen1s) then it's almost impossible to smoothly launch - it's either juddery, or a huge RPM leak - it's a hit and miss. The two finger pull with two fingers acting as stopper method I have been quite happy so far.

But yes, I had to adjust, no two ways about it. I really like the auto RPM up feature though - I thought that was missing. It was almost impossible to walk this bike by letting go of the clutch smoothly and playing around with the friction zone like one could with the panzer...

I hope this method helps you as well

 :821:

Thanks ICY, I'll give this method a go.
Title: Re: Tex clutch mod / warranty repair.
Post by: CaptainTrips on January 08, 2019, 05:40:25 PM
*Originally Posted by Icy [+]
If I pull in the clutch all the way (the way I used to with my two Gen1s) then it's almost impossible to smoothly launch - it's either juddery, or a huge RPM leak - it's a hit and miss.
Is that because you are not engaging the hill hold feature if you don't pull the clutch all the way in?
Title: Re: Tex clutch mod / warranty repair.
Post by: Icy on January 08, 2019, 05:55:17 PM
*Originally Posted by CaptainTrips [+]
Is that because you are not engaging the hill hold feature if you don't pull the clutch all the way in?

Oh, apparently I mistyped - I have an XCx, not an XRc. I don't have hill hold feature - I wouldn't ride a motorcycle with that feature... what's next, three tyres?!?

It's because the friction zone is too close to almost extended position of the clutch lever and I have trouble easing into it successfully, consecutively. I'm used to having the friction zone closer to the handle on my TEXs. Add that auto-rpm-up feature into the mix, and more often than not I end up creating a bizarre wobble instead of a steady smooth acceleration. I asked the dealer about this phenomena a few days after I got the bike and he told me about the new auto rpm up when the clutch hits the friction zone, and I simply went back to two finger clutch operation mode when I realized that my two fingers on the bar seem to be right below the friction zone. Now I am faster than ever with my acceleration - sport mode on baby! (not sure that's a good thing, but I am more mature now... beh)
Title: Re: Tex clutch mod / warranty repair.
Post by: CaptainTrips on January 08, 2019, 06:24:50 PM
I am going to repeat a post that I made in another thread on Dec. 28 because it is probably more relevant here in the context of Gen3 T12s and abrupt clutch engagement:

I noted this complaint in the November issue of Ride magazine. The mag staff held their fleet sports day where they compare their Ride fleet (8 bikes) in a series of challenges including 100 metre sprint, figure-of-eight, top speed, emergency stop and slow race.

They currently have a 2018 XRT current ridden by Simon Weir. He noted in the slow race that the T12 has "very little clutch slip - it's basically on or off - and it is a very heavy machine." He states that "it wants to move forwards at a smooth, elegantly controlled 5 mph" but not any slower. His T12 had 8800 miles on it at the time of the sports day.
Title: Re: Tex clutch mod / warranty repair.
Post by: Icy on January 08, 2019, 09:41:06 PM
 :460:  :0461: :0461: That'd be my experience - I can do down to 4 mph, 3 mph on stop & go traffic, but not any slower. It's very hard to keep it steady lower than that - but I never had a chance to stand up on the pegs and use it without bulky winter gear without cables sticking out of me everywhere. I bought the machine in the dead of winter...

Title: Re: Tex clutch mod / warranty repair.
Post by: NiK on January 09, 2019, 08:53:54 AM
Same here.
Slow operation is smooth and steady.
Very slow operation requires much clutch slipping.
However, I don't find it that difficult (once the engine is at nominal running temperature, that is).

The only real annoyance is the cold takeoff. It seems to be improving with miles, but it could just be me getting used to it ;-)
Title: Re: Tex clutch mod / warranty repair.
Post by: CaptainTrips on January 09, 2019, 05:13:10 PM
*Originally Posted by NiK [+]
The only real annoyance is the cold takeoff. It seems to be improving with miles, but it could just be me getting used to it ;-)
For cold takeoff, my gen1 started off fine cold and got gradually worse over time.
Title: Re: Tex clutch mod / warranty repair.
Post by: vsteel on January 10, 2019, 02:45:38 AM
I have found that if I slightly rev the engine on and off (500 rpm or so) I can better get into the slip zone.  I am pulsing the motor instead of the clutch pulsing.  I do that when I am trying to start slow or have issues with the judder.  Most of the time though I just engage and go. 



Title: Re: Tex clutch mod / warranty repair.
Post by: XCaTel on January 10, 2019, 10:19:44 AM
Add "hill hold" and you have the potential to look like a right twat on take off at low speeds. I know!
Title: Re: Tex clutch mod / warranty repair.
Post by: Tiger T.O. on January 11, 2019, 03:11:53 PM
 :0461: Had the engine stalling two times at traffic lights :012: :012:  very embarrassing  :192:
Title: Re: Tex clutch mod / warranty repair.
Post by: Icy on January 11, 2019, 03:26:44 PM
*Originally Posted by Tiger T.O. [+]
:0461: Had the engine stalling two times at traffic lights :012: :012:  very embarrassing  :192:

try the two fingers method: two fingers operate clutch, the other two act as stoppers on the handle so that the clutch stays closer to the friction zone... see how it goes, please
Title: Re: Tex clutch mod / warranty repair.
Post by: CaptainTrips on January 11, 2019, 05:10:04 PM
*Originally Posted by Tiger T.O. [+]
:0461: Had the engine stalling two times at traffic lights :012: :012:  very embarrassing  :192:
I wonder if these 'features' combined with the reduction in flywheel weight (as promoted by Triumph in their marketing literature) have had a negative effect on the tractability of the gen3. Seems to be the case. IMO, this definitely lives in the 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' realm.