Tiger Explorer

Main Tiger Explorer Discussion Boards => Tiger Explorer - General Discussion => Topic started by: Stillwobbling on January 09, 2019, 02:33:53 PM

Title: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: Stillwobbling on January 09, 2019, 02:33:53 PM
Ok this may be old news, but it's not something I have seen discussed in any detail elsewhere.

I bought a Gen 1 with no heated seat. I was comfy and did lots of miles. I snagged a heated seat at one point and did the usual plug and play routine. I was delighted with it. It was comfy and heated my backside to the point that having it on full was getting frankly a little kinky.

I sold the Gen 1 and put the original seat back on eventually selling the heated seat separately to a form member who expressed their equal delight.

Roll forward and I bought a Gen 2. Right from the ride home I was distinctly unimpressed with the seat. Both in comfort and in heat to the point that it's hardly worth switching on. In terms of comfort, I can manage an hour - then a break, then 30 mins then a break, then 15 mins and I have to stand on the pegs the rest of the way. It's crippling me.

I decided, because I am like that, to pull the seat apart. Nothing ventured and all that. What did I find inside? I'll tell you. B*****r all. There's a moulded plastic base, 4 strips of that material that you put under beds in boats to prevent condensation and the injection moulded cushion which would compress if an Autumn leaf landed on it.

At this point, I cut up some camping mats and added pieces to the seat, in layers and replaced the cover as best as I could. So is it better? It is without a doubt. But is it cured, no. It does clearly lead to the inescapable fact that some more padding makes a difference. But wait - there's more. I promised you detail on heated seating not just comfort.

Today I spoke to a seating specialist about getting a gel pad upgrade. It turns out that Gen 1 heated seats uses a heating mesh laid on top of the foam under the cover. Gen 2 seats, as I discovered, have the heating lattice embedded within the injection moulded foam topper. Firstly this makes inserting a gel section very difficult but secondly it might explain why the heating effect on Gen 2s is so poor compared to Gen 1s.


So there you have it. That's all I know.
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: XCaTel on January 09, 2019, 02:51:53 PM
Well I can tell you the heated seat on my Gen 3 is very gently pleasant and takes about 20-30 minutes to build up to full effect which is still quite mild. If I use it it is only on setting 2, setting 1 is barely noticeable.
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: Icy on January 09, 2019, 02:54:26 PM
Interesting... So they tried to do something better and ended up doing something worse. Probably the heating element right under the seat cover was prone to damage from wear & tear (definitely tear) and embedding it inside the foam made it more safe & secure and durable. But diminished the heating performance drastically. I'm lucky I don't care about heated seats, if I did, this would've driven me mad for sure.

Thank you for sharing this  :169:

 :821:

But now that you said the heated seat was a bit "kinky" you got me intrigued!!!  :008:
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: Stillwobbling on January 09, 2019, 03:06:45 PM
Heating on my Gen 1 took only minutes and was either lovely and warm or very hot. it certainly didn't take 20 - 30 mins. My Gen 2 takes all day to reach - errm well not much. I have tested the loom etc and all seems fine but it's just not very good. I read that other people were having the same experience which is why I posted this. I can't speak of the Gen 3. Test rode one, didn't like it, bought a Gen 2.
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: Simmo on January 09, 2019, 05:34:26 PM
My Gen1 never had heated seats never had heated seats and neither did mt Gen2 XRX. My first experience of heated seats was my current Gen2 XRT. I did my running in mileage in December 2017 and I was very grateful for the heat produced so they get a 'thumbs up' from me.

Having said all that the Triumph seats are not comfortable for me so I now have an electrically heated Corbin seat - luxury!

Simmo
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: Jon on January 09, 2019, 05:36:41 PM
My Gen 1 heated seats heat up in a minute or two. I can't use the high setting unless I've got my insulated riding pants on and the temp is below 20F. It just gets too hot. I pretty much use the low setting when I want heat and only when it's below 45 degrees.
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: XCaTel on January 09, 2019, 08:27:47 PM
*Originally Posted by Jon [+]
My Gen 1 heated seats heat up in a minute or two. I can't use the high setting unless I've got my insulated riding pants on and the temp is below 20F. It just gets too hot. I pretty much use the low setting when I want heat and only when it's below 45 degrees.
When you read the Gen 3 manual it states to switch on the heated seats on level 2, when up to temperature switch to level 1 for normal use. This would fit with your experience of 2 being too hot as it is only to give it an initial boost. I reckon they just haven't updated the text in the manual for Gen 3 from Gen 1 cos that definately doesn't work.

The manual has other mistakes, as previously mentioned by another poster somewhere, the manual headlight dip lever (for dipping the headlights 2 Degrees when loaded) is written up the wrong way round, see pic.


Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: NiK on January 10, 2019, 09:13:44 AM
*Originally Posted by XCaTel [+]
that definately doesn't work.
Yup!
That's how mine performs.
A greyed out icon on the dash and no heat at all.
I lived without heated seat for 20 years so I'm fine with that (even in the current near zero temps). But honestly the whole thing doesn't look that robust to me...
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: Will Morgan on January 10, 2019, 09:26:51 AM
*Originally Posted by XCaTel [+]
The manual has other mistakes, as previously mentioned by another poster somewhere, the manual headlight dip lever (for dipping the headlights 2 Degrees when loaded) is written up the wrong way round, see pic.

That mistake is a really gigantic cock up by Triumph - the same basic error in all the manuals since the Gen 1 & still not corrected!

As for heated seats.......I can't comment on Gen 3, but the ones on my Gen 2 work brilliantly well, as good as Gen 1 & maybe even better.
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: XCaTel on January 10, 2019, 09:55:28 AM
*Originally Posted by NiK [+]
Yup!
That's how mine performs.
A greyed out icon on the dash and no heat at all.
I lived without heated seat for 20 years so I'm fine with that (even in the current near zero temps). But honestly the whole thing doesn't look that robust to me...
Oh Nik, you must have a bigger problem, mine does light up te indicator on the dash on setting 1 and 2, it's just not super effective. If yours is greyed out I don't think it is switching on at all is it? Fuse 4 - 25A controls the heated seats, heated grips, rear socket and top box socket and/or check the dealer actually plugged it in (although I'm sure you probably already did).
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: Richy58 on January 10, 2019, 12:02:02 PM
Ican ride for 2 hours on my Gen1 before my arris starts to ache ,saying that the heated can go a little longer than the stock,purely because of the effect of heat on muscle.I reckon the answer to a longer run without having to stop is  to eat more carbs.Alexis Texas never whines about it,just saying  :172: :008:
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: XCaTel on January 10, 2019, 02:12:34 PM
I cannot vouch for her but can vouch for the new seat material on the Gen 3 (never ridden a Gen 1/2). My last 2016 bike was 90 minutes and a very sore bum but I will happily do a 10 hour ride on a Gen 3 Tiger 1200. Not saying it will be perfect but it is by far and away the comfiest bike I have ever owned.
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: Stillwobbling on January 10, 2019, 02:23:30 PM
I'm very pleased to hear that. Perhaps they made some changes. But this is really about the difference between Gen 1 and 2. If we can find out what the differences are, if any, in the Gen 3 then let's add them. Are the part numbers different?

In the meantime, I have ordered a Gen 1 original heated seat and I'm going to try it on the 2 to see if straight off, it's actually any more comfortable. I'll then take a decision on whether I have it pulled apart and upgraded. Clearly I shall have to do a slice and splice with the wiring but that's not a problem. I'll post the wiring solution if that's the way I go in the end.

I did Germany on my Gen 1 and some were 300 mile days and I was fine. We're going again this year and currently the thought of 100 miles fills me with dread.  Some of this has to do with weight I am sure.  If you're 9 stones wet through then I doubt you compress the seat that much. But I'm not really a stranger to the pie shop and a self confessed hefty lad, but it doesn't change the fact that my old bike was comfortable and this one isn't.
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: XCaTel on January 10, 2019, 03:07:58 PM
Yes, sorry I'm a little off topic. I believe the Gen 3 was a completely new seat material design with a 3D mesh insert.
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: Simmo on January 10, 2019, 03:17:01 PM
Hi Stillwobbling

A while back I had the opportunity to go for a heated Russell Daylong seat for my Gen2 XRT but unfortunately it was wired for a Gen1 bike. The Gen1 wiring, connections and switching are way different and beyond the level of my electrical skills so I had to pass on it.

Be interesting to hear how you get on. Cheers

Simmo
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: Stillwobbling on January 10, 2019, 03:24:54 PM
That's interesting, perhaps the incorporation of the mesh into the injected foam wasn't such a success. I tested a Gen 3 but didn't put the seat on as it was a warm day - but back then I was still riding my Gen 1 so  it wouldn't really occurred to me to have looked for any difference.

Yes the wiring is a little different, but I am sure I can get around that. Part of it is probably a signal to the dash display. I did take the Gen 2 seat and apply a bench top current to it and it warmed up, so it's no harder really than arranging power to it. Then I'll figure out what to do with any spare wires!

I was wondering if the original seat had two coils. One for low heat and both on for high heat. The new seat might be controlled in a different way by changing the current.
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: pcarnut on January 10, 2019, 07:54:35 PM
*Originally Posted by XCaTel [+]
I cannot vouch for her but can vouch for the new seat material on the Gen 3 (never ridden a Gen 1/2). My last 2016 bike was 90 minutes and a very sore bum but I will happily do a 10 hour ride on a Gen 3 Tiger 1200. Not saying it will be perfect but it is by far and away the comfiest bike I have ever owned.
Don't think I could do 10 hours on my gen 3, but it is definitely a comfortable seat.  Probably the best stock seat I've had on a bike and definitely a huge step up on my previous gen 2.
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: Vin829 on January 10, 2019, 09:14:59 PM
I really like my gen 3 seat also. But the heating function sucks
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: NiK on January 11, 2019, 09:23:56 AM
*Originally Posted by XCaTel [+]
Oh Nik, you must have a bigger problem, mine does light up te indicator on the dash on setting 1 and 2, it's just not super effective. If yours is greyed out I don't think it is switching on at all is it? Fuse 4 - 25A controls the heated seats, heated grips, rear socket and top box socket and/or check the dealer actually plugged it in (although I'm sure you probably already did).
The seat apparently switches on properly (I can cycle through the different levels) when the engine is not running (but doesn't heat up of course). As soon as the engine fires up, the icon greys out.
I instantly thought about Fuse 4, but every other accessory works.
I checked the connectors and everything seems normal. Soooo, either the seat itself is toast (pun intended), or... yes you guessed it: yet another software glitch!
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: Letemfly on January 12, 2019, 12:47:39 PM
I also find the heated grips disappointing on Gen3 compared to Gen1 and Gen2, Even in summer gloves can only just feel heat on highest level and lower settings are a waste of time!
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: tiger885 on January 12, 2019, 02:21:35 PM
This post covers several areas which seem to effect people quite differently. I've had my Gen2 for 2 years now and I have to say I found the seat quite uncomfortable after an hour or so, especially if just cruising. I had my heated seats re-covered and re-shaped which has helped a lot. But the biggest comfort help has been the addition of special mesh covers from coolcovers.co.uk  Although a bit expensive they have made ALL the difference for comfort. I can now literally ride all day without butt discomfort. The mesh allows some air to circulate around your sensitive areas and under your butt cheeks as well as offering a little extra cushion. Does the heating still work you might ask? Well yes it does but of course it takes a bit longer for the heat to permeate through. Frankly for me comfort over heat any day. As others have noted, setting the front of the seat to the higher position also helps stop one sliding forward but this is less necessary with the cool covers fitted if height is a problem. As to the basic heat question, my Gen2 puts out all the heat I could want with the hotter setting being a bit too hot after awhile, but again the cool covers mitigate that problem too. That's my 2 pennies worth for what its worth.

Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: Stillwobbling on January 12, 2019, 02:37:48 PM
Well thank you for bringing this back on topic! It is supposed to be a thread about Gen 1 and 2 after all. Who covered your seat might we ask?
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: jaiyenyen on January 12, 2019, 05:27:45 PM
On my 2017 XCA the heated seat is slow to heat up and does not get very warm. I did find that if I rode at a higher rpm the seat seemed to heat better. Perhaps more juice being created through the higher revs.
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: Stillwobbling on January 12, 2019, 05:34:59 PM
I have wondered about that. But an alternator should kick out whatever current is demanded at not much more than tickover. I'm not sure what rating the alternator on the bike has. My 4x4 can put out 120 amps but it never gets even close to that. On a bike, once the battery is replenished heating the grips and seats shouldn't be an issue. However, I have found that sometimes, for no reason I can fathom the seat will suddenly get hot - as you describe. When I get chance I am going to see how many amps the seat actually draws and monitor it over a period of time. I guess something has to regulate its temperature. I'm not clear on how it works. It's possible that it goes though some sort of ECU / controller.  I don't have a wiring diagram
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: CaptainTrips on January 12, 2019, 07:21:21 PM
*Originally Posted by Stillwobbling [+]
I have wondered about that. But an alternator should kick out whatever current is demanded at not much more than tickover.
Don't have heated seats, but I do notice a difference in heat output on my heated vest when revs pick up (Gen1 TEX).
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: Stillwobbling on January 12, 2019, 07:38:47 PM
Interesting. I do wonder if the regulator in the Tex alternator does need a few more revs to give full output when there's a lot running. Like I said, it shouldn't and I don't notice a change in the lights when I blip it from tickover. I'm running LED H4s now so I should be pulling considerably less current but I can't say I have noticed any difference in heat output.
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: Jake_Hag on January 13, 2019, 02:27:33 AM
I thought the heated seat on my 17 XCA seemed to work fine.  Of course this is the first heated seat on a motorcycle that I've had.  As for the comfort part, I have to agree.  This seat sucks after a few hours, which is why it's out in California getting reworked at Russell right now.  They are keeping the heated option. 
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: pcarnut on January 15, 2019, 03:21:48 PM
*Originally Posted by tiger885 [+]
This post covers several areas which seem to effect people quite differently. I've had my Gen2 for 2 years now and I have to say I found the seat quite uncomfortable after an hour or so, especially if just cruising. I had my heated seats re-covered and re-shaped which has helped a lot. But the biggest comfort help has been the addition of special mesh covers from coolcovers.co.uk  Although a bit expensive they have made ALL the difference for comfort. I can now literally ride all day without butt discomfort. The mesh allows some air to circulate around your sensitive areas and under your butt cheeks as well as offering a little extra cushion. Does the heating still work you might ask? Well yes it does but of course it takes a bit longer for the heat to permeate through. Frankly for me comfort over heat any day. As others have noted, setting the front of the seat to the higher position also helps stop one sliding forward but this is less necessary with the cool covers fitted if height is a problem. As to the basic heat question, my Gen2 puts out all the heat I could want with the hotter setting being a bit too hot after awhile, but again the cool covers mitigate that problem too. That's my 2 pennies worth for what its worth.


So, does installing the cover require removing the existing cover or does it slip on top of it, and if so how does it attach? 
Thx!
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: Stillwobbling on January 15, 2019, 03:30:20 PM
Gen 1 seat arrived today. I shall start looking at the electrics. I suspect that the heating to the Gen 2 seat is controlled by current supply as there's only two wires (pos and neg) and the Gen 1 seat has 4 wires. Possibly to two separate heating coils. Who knows. Hopefully we will, soon enough. But given the choice between comfort and warmth, I'll take comfort every time and put another pair of frillies on under my riding trousers.
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: XCaTel on January 15, 2019, 08:36:37 PM
My previous bike, a 2016 Africa Twin, was so uncomfortable I used a gel pad and a pair of Moto-Skiveez for any journey more than a couple of hours. Since owning the T1200 I have dispensed with both. I will say if you are looking for more comfort on the Gen 1/2 I really rate the Moto-Skiveez, they used to give me an extra hour at least.
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: Stillwobbling on January 15, 2019, 08:40:16 PM
Worth considering I suppose, but I'd much rather fix a problem than fudge the issue. It's like having a wife who snores. You can wear ear plugs or shoot her.
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: CaptainTrips on January 15, 2019, 08:51:26 PM
*Originally Posted by Stillwobbling [+]
It's like having a wife who snores. You can wear ear plugs or shoot her.
Oh... dear...   :155:
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: Icy on January 15, 2019, 09:04:06 PM
*Originally Posted by Stillwobbling [+]
Worth considering I suppose, but I'd much rather fix a problem than fudge the issue. It's like having a wife who snores. You can wear ear plugs or shoot her.

Hey! In our family I am the one who snores and wife's the one wearing ear plugs! I will not have a shooting spouse in bed! Earplugs it is - there is no or in there!!!  :192:
 :745:  :821:
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: Stillwobbling on January 15, 2019, 10:09:27 PM
Sorry was that a bit extreme?  :164:

OK well, back to seats then ....
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: NiK on January 16, 2019, 08:47:50 AM
*Originally Posted by Stillwobbling [+]
Sorry was that a bit extreme?  :164:
Well, as far as shooting people goes, its not everyday that a Brit sounds too extreme against Mercuns ;-)

(now let the "debate" begin ;-)
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: Jon on January 16, 2019, 06:33:11 PM
Gotta luv it! :047:
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: Chaz on January 16, 2019, 10:51:24 PM
I love my bike but have to say, me and my heated seat don’t like each other, I just can’t do any distance without getting a sore ass. I have got to the stage I use my air hawk pad all the time now. But that was good to here I could get the seat modified and still keep the heating element. Need to look into that one.
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: Stillwobbling on January 16, 2019, 10:55:26 PM
Well keep dialled in and I'll update as things move on. I'm not sending it off immediately - cash flow and all that, but I need to move on it pretty soon.

I've had a ride on the Gen 1 saddle and it does actually feel better than the Gen 2 but I need a longer ride to really know. But in any case, at least one of my seats needs to go to the stitcher.
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: Stillwobbling on January 27, 2019, 09:29:05 AM
Quick update on the wiring front. Had time to play yesterday. It seems that there are 5 wires on the Gen 1 seat. Here's what I do know.
The back is earth - return. 12v applied to Red and Black makes the seat quite warm. 12 v applied to Orange and Black make it mildly warm. I ran out of hands at this point. There is no path between the white and grey wires which leads me to think that some how they are signal feeds to the handle bar illumination for heat setting 1 and 2. I don't think they'll be necessary.  I do believe that the current on the Gen 2 is controlled on the bike via an ECU of some sort rather then simply switching the elements in the seat. So, I can either wire it to fire mildly warm, or nice and toasty or I could Siamese the orange and black together and see if the bike will control the temperature via shifting the current. I only had a 2 amp bench supply but the seat was warm in seconds.
Title: Re: What I have learned about heated seats (Gen 1 v Gen 2)
Post by: Stillwobbling on March 06, 2019, 08:19:09 AM
Minor thread resurrection here - dropped into Saddlecraft in South Shields this week to see Les. I took three saddles in with me and we looked at options.
I left him with a Gen 1 seat that I'd picked up. It's going to be re modelled and recovered, retaining the heating element which I will rewire to work with my Gen 2 bike.
I'm having the seat built up with a 1" gel section and better padding. Looking at the gel inserts from actual seats and the ones that they put in was interesting. The stuff they're putting in is what I'd call 'proper'.

That does mean that I have a genuine unused Gen 2 Triumph Comfort seat if there's any interest. I'll stick it on the foe sale section at some point.  It's not heated but adding heating in would actually be really simple now I've had a couple to bits.