Tiger Explorer

Main Tiger Explorer Discussion Boards => Tiger Explorer - General Discussion => Topic started by: Triple3 on September 09, 2019, 12:56:00 PM

Title: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: Triple3 on September 09, 2019, 12:56:00 PM
I have a 5 month old Tiger XR with 4100 miles on clock which I have had from new I have noticed the rear pads are more than half worn but the fronts are still like new. Does anyone know if the brake bias is adjustable at dealers. Had many bikes over last 30 years and never had rear pads wear this fast.
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: peejay1977 on September 09, 2019, 12:59:46 PM
As far as I know they are not able to be dialled in. It's because of the linked brakes. In 15 years I've never had to replace pads on the rear of any bike that I've owned, on my current Explorer I had to replace them at 10,000 as they were dangerously worn low.
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: Tiger T.O. on September 09, 2019, 01:02:23 PM
Known phenomenon on all new Explorers, I check mine regularly and have them replaced with OEM parts when necessary  :002:
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: Triple3 on September 09, 2019, 01:12:04 PM
It would seem they are only going to last 8000 miles. I would have thought brake bias should be 80/20 front/rear. The front pads are hardly worn may have a word with dealer to see what determines bias.
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: Hawkeye on September 09, 2019, 03:05:47 PM
*Originally Posted by Triple3 [+]
It would seem they are only going to last 8000 miles. I would have thought brake bias should be 80/20 front/rear. The front pads are hardly worn may have a word with dealer to see what determines bias.

Mine only lasted just under 7k miles before the "slots" on the pads had disappeared. Keeping a keen eye on the OEM replacements as fully expecting it to happen again.

Guy who services my Tex says that fronts should last about 18k on average.

I'm hoping the (new) rears will last a bit better, but have just purchased a spare OEM set to fit in case I'm ever caught out and urgently need to fit a set.

Makes the 10k service intervals a bit of a joke if the rear pads don't last that long and Triumph give no warning that the rears will wear early. But unaware of any options for adjusting bias, the only thing you can do is use both brakes, as if you touch the rear after the front, then the link is "broken" for that braking session.
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: NiK on September 09, 2019, 04:56:43 PM
Since I got my current Mk3, I progressively turned from "obsessive rear brake practitioner" to "never touch it, but in very slow manoeuvres and emergency braking situations".
Still, I had my rear pads replaced at the 16,000 km service. And this was the first time I had to in 3 Tiger 1200.
Like you all, I can only hypothesize that its due to linked brake.
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: Triple3 on September 09, 2019, 05:16:52 PM
I agree its a joke having a 10k service interval if you had to change a set of pads at 7k. My ST had 31k on it and rear pads were still not down to near marker. I think the MK3 is the only Tiger with linked brakes.
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: Hawkeye on September 09, 2019, 05:36:27 PM
*Originally Posted by Triple3 [+]
I agree its a joke having a 10k service interval if you had to change a set of pads at 7k. My ST had 31k on it and rear pads were still not down to near marker. I think the MK3 is the only Tiger with linked brakes.

No, they are linked on the Gen-2’s as well
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: XCaTel on September 09, 2019, 05:51:25 PM
*Originally Posted by Triple3 [+]
I have a 5 month old Tiger XR with 4100 miles on clock which I have had from new I have noticed the rear pads are more than half worn but the fronts are still like new. Does anyone know if the brake bias is adjustable at dealers. Had many bikes over last 30 years and never had rear pads wear this fast.
Normal and well known on this bike, it's down to the linked brakes and weight I reckon, pretty sure their is no bias adjustment. Replacement pads are not expensive and easy to get at if you want to do it yourself.
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: CaptainTrips on September 09, 2019, 05:53:06 PM
Use your brakes less. I use the engine braking 90% of the time and just use the brakes for final stopping or slow maneuvering. And to light up the brake light if someone is following me.
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: Triple3 on September 09, 2019, 06:21:01 PM
I do think I am quite lite on the brakes. The front pads are hardly worn.
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: XCaTel on September 09, 2019, 06:55:51 PM
Same here on the front, they seem to be lasting very well.
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: jannerman on September 09, 2019, 07:48:52 PM
With the linked brakes having the safety net of ABS, maybe Triumph can afford to apportion much more of the baking force to the rear than an experienced rider normally would be inclined to as there seems to be a helluva lot more weight over the the rear wheel than on a sports bike for example?

Also, could there be any difference in the compound between front and rear?

I've gotta say, all in all, my MK3 stops reassuringly well for such a weighty beast, I've had much lighter bikes that don't stop anywhere near as well. The whole setup is certainly confidence inspiring for me. With Triumph and Bosch's help I seem to do a better job at it than I can on my own.
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: Triple3 on September 09, 2019, 07:54:16 PM
Its no good if a set of pads don't last until the first service. If more braking is done on the rear a larger set of pads should have been in the design. Triumph stipulate first service at 10k and make claims of this as a selling point.
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: XCaTel on September 09, 2019, 08:05:15 PM
*Originally Posted by jannerman [+]

I've gotta say, all in all, my MK3 stops reassuringly well for such a weighty beast, I've had much lighter bikes that don't stop anywhere near as well. The whole setup is certainly confidence inspiring for me. With Triumph and Bosch's help I seem to do a better job at it than I can on my own.
I'd agree there with you jannerman. A group I hang out with laid on a "slow speed riding day" in a large car park and part of our day was to get up to 50-60Km/h and jam on the brakes as aggressively as possible to get the feel for the ABS. I heartily recommend doing this as it gives a great insight into how your Tiger will behave and what to expect on ABS activation. No matter how hard I braked it was easily controllable every time. I'm not convinced I'll try the cornering ABS in this fashion however!  :005:
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: jannerman on September 09, 2019, 09:03:08 PM
@Triple3 I understand why you feel aggrieved at having to stump up and that it doesn't reflect particularly well on Triumphs O/E specification but brake pads are consumables... just like tyres, I wouldn't expect to wait till a recommended service interval to replace them either though.

And what do they cost.. a few quid on a multi thousand pound bike? I'm pretty sure they'll cost a lot less than a set of front pads.
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: Triple3 on September 09, 2019, 09:38:08 PM
I don't feel aggrieved at the cost of having to change the pads, I don't need to just yet, it was Hawkeye that pointed out he had to change his at 7k. I am supprised that the rear pads themselves are wearing out so fast and the fronts are hardly worn which suggests to me that a large percentage of the braking from the front lever is biased to the rear brake, and the rear brake itself is not up to the job.  My original post was because I thought there was something wrong with my bikes brake bias as normal  bias is around  80/20 to75/25 and my past experience of not having to change rear brake pads at such low mileage., also the design suggests that it is the front brakes that should be doing most of the braking having big Brembo  calipers and pads.  I don't think enough R&D has went into the design if pads are not lasting to the first service interval.   
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: jannerman on September 09, 2019, 10:05:54 PM
This doesn't seem to be a recent or universal issue, this thread (https://www.tiger-explorer.com/index.php/topic,8140.0.html) dates back to 2014 (so MK1?, pre linked brakes?) Many posts seem to suggest that the pistons/pads aren't moving freely, whilst another's dealer told them the rear pads are a softer compound (could just be BS?) and others have no problems at all.

I guess it's just a heads up to keep an eye on things.
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: Triple3 on September 09, 2019, 10:24:54 PM
I will keep an eye on the rear pads now that I am aware that this seems to be the norm.
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: TTruckie on September 09, 2019, 10:34:26 PM
yep its a know thing that Explorers eat front tyres and rear brakes.

I assumed it is the linked brakes.  Luckily they are easy to change.
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: Gwilym on September 09, 2019, 11:01:34 PM
*Originally Posted by TTruckie [+]
yep its a know thing that Explorers eat front tyres and rear brakes.

I assumed it is the linked brakes.  Luckily they are easy to change.

I used to agree but currently got 11,000 miles on a pair of Avon Trailriders. The rear will need changing in next 1000miles or so but front looks unused, I reckon another 5k at least. Normally changed tyres at around 6k

Now I need to find a solution to the rear brake pads.
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: Hawkeye on September 09, 2019, 11:06:16 PM
*Originally Posted by Triple3 [+]
I don't feel aggrieved at the cost of having to change the pads, I don't need to just yet, it was Hawkeye that pointed out he had to change his at 7k. I am supprised that the rear pads themselves are wearing out so fast and the fronts are hardly worn which suggests to me that a large percentage of the braking from the front lever is biased to the rear brake, and the rear brake itself is not up to the job.  My original post was because I thought there was something wrong with my bikes brake bias as normal  bias is around  80/20 to75/25 and my past experience of not having to change rear brake pads at such low mileage., also the design suggests that it is the front brakes that should be doing most of the braking having big Brembo  calipers and pads.  I don't think enough R&D has went into the design if pads are not lasting to the first service interval.

The OEM rear pads are organic GG's, maybe that's why they wear quicker. Having said that, I'm not the only one, as shown in the earlier thread referred to above, who have found the rear pads can wear quickly. Some owners haven't experienced this, others have replaced the OEM pads with new OEM pads and got good wear. My surprise was that I had to replace them at 7k miles, to be honest on past bikes I've always found that rear pads last longer than front, also at 7k miles I hadn't expected them to have worn like that (and I don't think I'm heavy on the brakes, I use engine braking as much as possible). The new pads have done just over 2k miles so far, so we'll see how they go, just something that needs to be checked at regular intervals and certainly before any long trips.
Overall I'm not worried if I have to change them every 6,000 - 7,000 miles. As mentioned above, cost isn't silly, they are easy to do, and the braking overall is pretty damn good, especially with the Brembo's up front. As has been said - a consumable.
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: CaptainTrips on September 10, 2019, 12:01:36 AM
I have a Gen1 TEX, so no linked braking. My old ST1300 (Pan) had linked brakes. The rear brake on the ST13 was actually larger in diameter than the twin rotors on the front. Compared to the relatively puny brake on rear of the TEX, I would say that the T12 rear brake would be under-speced for linked braking.
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: bazthebike on September 10, 2019, 08:37:50 AM
My gen 2 , 6k on first set, 8500 on second set, both genuine pads. Have now fitted sbs street pads.
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: Triple3 on September 10, 2019, 08:50:21 AM
I agree Captain Trips the rear brake is not up to the job. I can tell by my front brake pads which are hardly worn on units that are designed to give a large percentage of stopping power but are not being used due to the percentage of brake bias going to rear brake. Lack of R&D on Triumphs behalf. Honda obviously  must have noticed this and designed accordingly.
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: jannerman on September 10, 2019, 10:19:43 AM
Rear brake not up to the job, just because the pads wear quickly? come off it.

Do your front forks dive under heavy braking? If so the front brakes are working just fine.

The main takeaway from all this is that it’s worth keeping an eye on the rear brake pad wear, for that information I’m grateful.
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: Triple3 on September 10, 2019, 02:36:08 PM
I think it is normal braking where the brake bias is probably too much going to the rear. My forks do dive under heavy braking but I tend not to ride and then apply a heavy amount of brake in most circumstances. The rear brake caliper and pads do not seem to be much larger than my ST that had done 31k miles and pads were still serviceable although not a linked system. In over 30 years riding various bikes I have never changed a set of rear pads before changing fronts, which brings me to the same conclusion that the rear brake is not up to the job in a linked system.
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: jannerman on September 10, 2019, 03:03:10 PM
I agree, it seems unusual to have to replace the rear pads before the front ones, certainly I’ve never experienced it.

Out of curiosity, I’ve just googled for rear pad wear on BMW GS and it seems like a similar situation with owners reporting changing rear pads at much lower mileages than they’re expecting/accustomed to.

So it doesn’t sound like it’s exclusively a Triumph thing, perhaps it’s just a characteristic of heavy adventure style bikes (not necessarily linked brakes as the MK1s suffered form it too and they didn’t have them) I don’t know because this is my first experience of a large adventure type bike.
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: Triple3 on September 10, 2019, 03:58:19 PM
This is also my first adventure bike and maybe it is a thing you have to look out for on them. I certainly will be doing in the future.  Spoke to a guy with an Yamaha FJR with 14000 mile on it and linked brakes and no rear pad changes required on that, so maybe it is the set up on an adventure bike. At least I now know of the situation and as mentioned earlier the pads are easy to change. 
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: peejay1977 on September 10, 2019, 03:59:58 PM
I've always had sports bike up until this, and I've never once had to change the rear pads on a bike. I just put it down to either the linked brakes or the weight of the bike plus the size of the rear disc.
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: rivets on September 11, 2019, 09:58:32 AM
Bottom line is, when you hit the brakes you want to stop - right?
It might just be that the designers have decided on a caliper / pad size combination to ensure your braking experience is good, i.e. not so ineffective that nothing happens (we've all had that bike), not over effective to cause ABS to kick in all the time.
A consequence of this, combined with the linked system, means that you may have to change the pads more often than you're used to on your old "sports bike" where we all know the back brake is nothing but an ornament.
What would you rather do, put long life pads made of unobtanium in to make sure they reach the 10k service but are completely ineffective when the idiot pulls out on you?

In my opinion I think its just a function of the size of the bike, the weight distribution (unlikely to be doing stoppies!) and the most effective way to make you stop quickly, its not as though you need to sell a kidney to buy the pads so not worth fretting about.
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: NiK on September 11, 2019, 10:23:35 AM
Sound points, but as previously stated here: my two previous Mk2s had good rear brakes that I used all the time and the pads were to be replaced every 2 services.
So the T12 is a setback in this regard.
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: sirsidneyrd on September 11, 2019, 10:24:32 AM
Used to love the linked braking on my Blackbird - was great two up - i wear the rear pad quick on the Tex as a lot of two up stuff to stop the pitch and slow speed control - no linky on the 2012 - have moved back to normal EBC pads - had a sintered set that were a bastard to fit 
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: Triple3 on September 11, 2019, 11:28:47 AM
Pulled the front pads and they look brand new apart from they look glazed which suggests they are hardly doing any work (probably my riding style). I wonder if Triumph has set up the system for maybe the first 5 - 10% of braking from front brake lever going to rear so a lot (in my case) of just feathering off speed is done by the small rear brake. In a normal system brake bias is mostly always bias to the front unless a load proportioning valve is fitted.
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: vsteel on September 11, 2019, 02:57:13 PM
I will have to check mine.  Both my Speed Triple and my GEN 1 Tiger needed the brakes replaced around the 30K miles mark.  I will have to see how they last.  I have around 18K miles on my bike now and when I replaced the tires at 17.5K they were still doing good when I checked. 

 
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: TRITIGEX on September 11, 2019, 07:09:29 PM
FWIW the rear pads on my 2018 XRx were  gone at 14500km/9000miles
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: KenW on September 11, 2019, 11:31:52 PM
My T1200 is on 27 kkm.  Not down to the metal yet on the rear.
Guess it all comes down to the type of riding, how much corner braking you do, and whether you use the rear brake on its own (I do).
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: XCaTel on September 12, 2019, 09:00:07 AM
*Originally Posted by KenW [+]
My T1200 is on 27 kkm.  Not down to the metal yet on the rear.
Guess it all comes down to the type of riding, how much corner braking you do, and whether you use the rear brake on its own (I do).
I think you are right. Here in Ireland I try and avoid the main roads unless I need to make fast progress so consequently lots of braking/acceleration on the regional roads. It eats the rear brake pads as I almost exclusively use the linked brakes, on my third set (just) at 18k Km. In old imperial that's 5,600 miles per set. And I'm not changing them early.
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: anaheimtex on September 13, 2019, 06:38:17 AM
I replaced my rears around 29000 miles and they were almost down to metal(dumb me). I really don’t know if they were ever replaced prior. I sure don’t remember replacing them.  As far as whether the rear brakes are good enough, turn off abs and hit the brake. If it locks up the tire it’s good enough.
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: CaptainTrips on September 15, 2019, 06:24:52 PM
*Originally Posted by KenW [+]
My T1200 is on 27 kkm.  Not down to the metal yet on the rear.
Minimum brake pad thickness is 1.5mm according to the OEM service manual. The EBC brake pads that I am using don't have wear grooves in them like the OEM pads did.
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: JG_XRT on September 15, 2019, 10:14:43 PM
I have 15000 miles on my 2017.

Front pads have a lot of life left.

Rears were replaced at the 10000 mile service, and will likely need to be replaced before to 20K service- at 10K, they were toast, and I never checked them prior to the 10K service- never had a set of pads (front or rear) wear out that fast).

Now, on this bike, I expect early replacement and keep an eye on them.
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: Bruce Wayne on September 18, 2019, 05:58:38 PM
I’ve my tiger since March 1st this year. Now after 16.500km the bike will bevserviced and I told them to check the rear brakepads. I bought the bike with 8000km on it. So now after almost 25.000km the brakepads needs to be replaced. Front still good.
Title: Re: Rear brake pad wear
Post by: Purdy on September 19, 2019, 03:16:18 PM
*Originally Posted by TTruckie [+]
yep its a know thing that Explorers eat front tyres and rear brakes.

I assumed it is the linked brakes.  Luckily they are easy to change.

4500 miles i had a new front and rear pads, nice to know im not the only one !