Brake Gear Overlap what's the problem?

[Will Morgan]

Originally Posted by TinnedBeans

Ah but my point is that the IAM say that, if you need to brake then you should brake without changing gear. Then when you get to the final desired speed you should change gear. And that doesn't seem right to me in practice. I want to blend increased engine braking into the mix. I stop quicker and safer from high speeds doing this than just braking
So 70, close throttle, brake, it's all brake because no engine braking, as I get to around 40 change down a couple maybe into third, blip throttle and open throttle just enough to match revs, engage drive and ready to be able to use engine braking and do all that whilst lessening brake pressure but still trailing the brake.  Then close throttle, much stronger engine braking slow down, and maybe change down to second

Something like that not really considered it before. But I am definitely overlapping gear changes and braking

What the IAM don't want you to do is to change down before braking or instead of braking. As I said above, they say it is OK to change down during the final stages of braking.

And the IAM approach is to ride in a gear that gives you flexibility (= both acceleration & engine braking available). Therefore they would say if you are riding at 70mph and there is inadequate engine braking available you are riding in too higher gear.

Using IAM techniques on an Explorer I ride mostly in 2nd, 3rd & 4th. At 70mph in 3rd there is instantly adequate engine braking without the need to change down for most eventualities. This takes some getting used to = it feels & sounds like you're thrashing the engine, but in reality the rpm will still be safely below the red line. I only use 5th & 6th on long stretches of open main roads or dual carriageways.

Originally Posted by Gwilym

The IAM system is merely guidelines.

One of the commonest things IAM say is "It all depends......." 
As I said before "There are infinite nuances & variations in circumstances and the IPSGA system is not a rigid rule carved in stone = it is a system of motorcycle control to use & adapt for those infinite nuances & variations in circumstances."
And you are spot on that "The main take away from any Advanced Training should be Observation, Observation and Observation" = They want riders who see & anticipate hazards before they get to them rather than having to react at the last minute.

[TinnedBeans]

Thanks for the replies everyone, I'm genuinely interested as I did part of the IAM training before calling it a day for personal reasons. I'd like to complete the training and take and hopefully pass the test as soon as possible/practicable

[TinnedBeans]

Originally Posted by Will Morgan

And the IAM approach is to ride in a gear that gives you flexibility (= both acceleration & engine braking available). Therefore they would say if you are riding at 70mph and there is inadequate engine braking available you are riding in too higher gear.

Using IAM techniques on an Explorer I ride mostly in 2nd, 3rd & 4th. At 70mph in 3rd there is instantly adequate engine braking without the need to change down for most eventualities. This takes some getting used to = it feels & sounds like you're thrashing the engine, but in reality the rpm will still be safely below the red line. I only use 5th & 6th on long stretches of open main roads or dual carriageways.

This is probably bang on, it has reminded me of a comment made by an observer that pissed me off at the time. He said that I rode a bike like people drive a car with regards to revs.

[XCaTel]

This no changing gear while braking is not a ROSPA methodology at all.

[anaheimtex]

had a tough time following the point of this?  The fastest way to stop is with brakes.  downshifting does not add any additional stopping.  Are we talking about casual riding or frantic stops? 

[KenW]

Has to be casual riding.  The gears can't apply stopping power to the front wheel, where braking is most effective.
Personally I'm of the opinion that brake pads are cheaper than gears.  -But then I haven't done any rider training.  Nor have I had a serious off in my 40-50 odd years of riding.

[TinnedBeans]

I use engine braking in addition to the front and rear brakes. I downshift, let out the clutch, and use the engine's resistance to slow the bike down, as well as both brakes. I almost never rely on the brakes by themselves